The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Rate my Sourdough!

ConorMc's picture
ConorMc

Rate my Sourdough!

Hi all,

 

First-time poster & new baker who recently went on a sourdough baking course & LOVED it!

Whilst i'm relatively happy with my bread this weekend (Pics Above) wondered if you had any tips on how to make it better?

Three specific questions:

- How do i get more oven spring in my bread so more airy? 

- The recipe was the same for both, wondering why the baton raised more than the boule?

- If I wanted to make one large Baton - vs one baton & one boule - how long would I need to bake it for if i used all the dough in the recipe below? Is there a rule of thumb for this in general? e.g. this weight of mixture = this length of cooking?

Recipe:

Makes 2 x 750g loaves

300g wholemeal rye starter (50% Rye : 50% Water)

720g white strong flour (shipton mill 11.5% protein)

480g water

15g sea salt 

Autolaise for 30mins followed by 4 folds (one every 30 mins). Then proved overnight from 11.30pm to 8am.

Baked at 220c (428F) for 40 mins - cup of water thrown in to oven at start of bake!

 

Thanks all & delighted to be posting on The Fresh Loaf after reading and learning so much from this site!

ConorMc

MichaelLily's picture
MichaelLily

I would go up to 70 or 75% hydration and perhaps let the bulk proof go 3-4 hours. Also I recommend baking in a dutch oven, La Cloche, or on top of a stone or steel and under an inverted bowl for steam's sake. Otherwise the bread looks pretty good. You may just want to add water since you want a more open crumb. As far as baking time, you bake until the internal temp is 200. This is almost always done by the time the crust is dark (when using sufficient steam).

Edo Bread's picture
Edo Bread

How did it taste?

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

and far better than my first sourdoughs. I like what I see! and as Edo says what was the taste like?

First things first is bakers terminology. The flour is always 100%. So your starter has a ratio of 1:1. Or you'd say 100% hydration. But we know what you mean. Nothing to do with your actual bake but thought I'd point that out. Also its autolyse (but I have a feeling that's auto correct for you).

Your final dough hydration, including the starter, is 72.41%. You're using a relatively weak European flour and you're getting onto quite high hydration for an all white flour bread. A free standing loaf will struggle with height. From my experience 65% hydration is comfortable with the flour you're using and up to 70% would be considered high. As for why did one have better oven spring it could all be down to shaping and scoring better.

When you say you proved overnight I'm assuming in the fridge!?

Did you bake them at the same time or one after the other? If at the same time then one might've been placed in a hotter part of the oven and the other could have crusted over more quickly due to your ovens fan. Steam is the difference between good and great bread. Perhaps you might think about baking in a Dutch Oven (or substitute).

I'm just throwing out ideas here. Just some things to think about. Don't take it the wrong way because I think your bread is great!

ConorMc's picture
ConorMc

Hi Guys,

Thanks so much for your help. From what i hear above, think i'll play around with the hydration levels. I cooked them separately with lots of steam and proofed in the fridge for 9hours.

 

@Lechem: Would it help the 'airyness' or structure if I found and used a stronger flour? The Rye flour only has protein level 7.8g so all told maybe too low a level of protein?

@MichealLilly How would leaving during the bulk proofing phase help with structure?

@EdoBread - Bread was delicious! Gave one to my sisters family and they loved it too. Delighted with the outcome, i'm now just trying to build knowledge in search of the elusive 'perfect loaf'!

Thanks all & any more tips please let me know!

ConorMc

 

 

 

 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

To your white breads. Will give a lot of flavour. The gluten in rye is weak, and different to wheat, but I don't think you should miss it out. Everything from gluten strength to hydration will affect the crumb. If the gluten is too strong then the gas bubbles can't expand as much resulting in a denser loaf. If the gluten is too weak then it'll struggle with oven spring and won't expand as much. Ideally you want a good quality but medium strength protein. Finding the hydration that works best for the flour and your desired results will also help. Here in the UK I find that what works best for me is...

Bread Flour : 65% hydration (upto 70% for a dough at the higher end hydration)

Whole-Wheat : 80% hydration (upto 85% etc...)

Whole Rye : 95% hydration (upto 100%+ etc...)

 

What I do is add up how much of each is going into the dough and give each flour its right hydration. For a nice country loaf a mix of all 3 is nice. Something to the tune of 70% bread flour, 20% whole-wheat and 10% whole rye. If you can mix the white flour 50% strong bread flour + 50% a weaker white flour then you'll get a nice balance for an AP flour (which we don't really have here) for your bread.

So I might go for something like this:

 

500g flour (350g bread flour, 100g whole-wheat, 50g whole rye)

330g warm water

10g salt

150g starter @ 100% hydration (52g bread flour, 15g whole-wheat, 8g whole rye + 75g water)

 

Total bread flour: 402g @ 65% hydration = 261g water

Total whole-wheat flour: 115g @ 80% hydration = 92g water

Total whole rye = 58g @ 90% hydration = 52g water

Total water: 405g. But then minus the 75g already in the starter = 330g

 

Now you have a nice recipe for a country loaf with the hydration in the ballpark of what you're looking for. You might find you need more or less but it's a good start. The starter is 30%.

So bulk ferment till ready. At 30% we're looking at 3-4 hours but watch the dough and not the clock. Shape and final proof till ready or pop in the fridge overnight for 8-12 hours.

This is my thought process for coming up with recipes.

 

MichaelLily's picture
MichaelLily

My fridge is cold, so my bread doesn't rise hardly at all in the fridge. Therefore I have to proof long enough during bulk for the bread to aerate in order to have a more open crumb.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

twice as big as yours is that they take much longer to bake to get the middle to 205 F.  You have a longer streaming time and  you bake them at a lower temperature so the outside isn't burnt before the inside is done.  Of you are making a twice as long batard the thickness around the middle remains the same, then you just bake it like a smaller loaf.

Your bread looks great by the way

Happy baking

ConorMc's picture
ConorMc

@lechem that's invaluable! Thanks so much

@MichaelLily i'm the same, will definately look at how long i'm proffing as well as hydration & protein content

@dabrownman That makes perfect sense. Wonder if it's worth starting with a really hot oven then reducing heat. I'm still learning but are you better with higher temp at start to help with oven spring & thinner crust development?

ConorMc