March 11, 2017 - 6:29am
Dough looks like wet pancake batter
I'm trying to follow this sourdough recipe, where it calls for 1000g of flour , 70g of wheat germ, 150g of leavan and an initial 800g of water for the autolyse. I just mixed all of these together and it wants me to add 50g of water with the salt after but right now it looks like really wet pancake batter. There's no semblance of a dough to this. I'm wondering how I'm supposed to fold and turn this later on if I could swim in this mixture given the right proportions.
EDIT: The water has an 85% bakers percentage so I realize it is supposed to be a rather wet dough, just unsure of how it actually becomes dough from here and how to handle it.
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Very high. What percentage bread flour to whole wheat are you using? And what type of flour?
It can be done but not a hydration I'd recommend as an introduction to bread baking.
Leave out that extra 50g when adding the salt.
It's 100% bread flour. It called for bread and strong wheat flour, not whole wheat, so I ended up subbing bread for the strong. The levan, however, was made with a 50/50 blend of bread and whole wheat flour.
Very high for bread flour. If all whole wheat I'd understand but bread flour?
Don't add in that extra 50g water. Do your best. And worst comes to the worst tip into a bread pan for the final proof if you can't handle it. You will still get a nice bread.
If you're confident enough then mix some whole wheat flour and salt in the correct % and slowly add till a semblance of a dough is formed. However the starter % will now be off so you'll have to go more by feel.
You and Danielle both suggested adding flour so I'll definitely try that and keep salt in mind. Do you think I should thicken this up with a bit of whole wheat flour instead of bread?
Definitely whole wheat. Will add more flavour :)
Thank you for your continued advice, you've got as much of a hand in this bread as I do, from leaven to hydration control. Lol
I've been baking and using sourdough for a few years now and I'd never do an 85% hydration all bread flour. I've been there, done that etc. I generally know what I can handle and adjust the hydration accordingly.
I agree! It will give you great flavour too!
Apologies
There are a few things to consider with Chad's recipes but the main one is how much water can your flour absorb. I didn't look to see where you are from but European flours absorb way less water than Canadian or American flourS. Also the flour type matters such as bread or all purpose flour.
The other thing is how much hydration can you personally handle. I was struggling with the crumb with such high hydration and didn't experience success until I cut way back on the water. I now stick around 73-78 % hydration no matter what the recipe says.
So back to you. I would say you have two options:
1. Continue with the recipe as is but bake it in a tin with steam. Instead of shaping at the end of the bulk rise, pour the dough into loaf pans and let the loaves rise in the pans. That will save you the frustration of trying to shape the dough and then trying to get this loose dough out of the banneton and into a Dutch oven without it running all over.
2. Add more flour to it until it feels like a dough you can handle. Be sure to weigh out the amount you add so you can calculate the extra salt needed. 2% is what I think Tartine breads include. You may have to wait a bit longer for the bulk rise and the proof since you will now have a smaller amount of pre fermented flour.
Good luck and be sure to post what you decided to do.
Quite the eye, you must have been through these books a few times. Yes, I'm working from Tartine #3, specifically the amaranth one. I honestly should have checked the hydration level of this bread before trying it, but I've had great results with my baking so far and felt a touch overconfident.
I'll check it in half an hour and see if it's thickening up or if I should add more flour.
so i know the base recipe pretty well. Chad's combo of ingredients is wonderful but his proportion of ingredients in his recipes is not. I now have developed my own base recipe that works for the flour I use and my timelines. I still have his book handy for ideas and for methods such sprouting or fermenting grains. Love the book, don't love the hydration. Ha ha!
These work great when you get over your hands with hydration...
Adding (along with more salt...taste the dough to decide if salty enough)
Give the added soaker uppers at least 15 minutes to soak up moisture before correcting hydration again.
If you were to add flax seeds to a bread, would you grind them up first? I read their nutrients are more easily absorbed if you grind them first. I also feel like they'd do a better job soaking up moisture this way.
Grind them up first. Or buy them ground. Otherwise they just go thru without giving up their nutrients. They come in gold and dark seeds. Don't know if there is a nutritional difference. Once ground, they have a shorter shelf life so watch those dates on the packages and when open keep cool and air tight.
I have a spice grinder I've been using whenever I added them to my sandwich bread for the nutrients, so I'll keep grinding them fresh to avoid the worry on shelf life. Thank you for your advice, I'll keep this in mind next time I get lost in the deep end of hydration!
Yes, I think most of us have trouble with doughs at this hydration. Adding flour or other soaker-uppers will make it easier to shape and bake, but will of course change the nature of the finished bread. If you really want to see what an 85% hydration dough ends up like, there are a couple of other things you can try, depending on your time and patience. First, you'll find that as you let the dough rest and do the stretch and folds periodically, over time the dough will become stronger, smoother and stretchier. It's still difficult to shape into a boule but much easier than you might think, looking at it right after mixing. Then you might take a look at any videos on Youtube about shaping Crystal bread or even ciabatta (try this one for 110% hydration dough!).These super-wet doughs are usually gently folded, floured and patted into a rough shape on a piece of parchment paper, then baked right on the paper (either on a stone or pan). Transferring from a banneton to a hot iron pot is very difficult! Finally, if you persevere and really want to bake it in a pot, try turning it out of the banneton onto a piece of parchment, then quickly lowering the loaf on the parchment into the pot. That helps it keep it's shape long enough to get it in there anyway.
Check out www.breadwerx.com. There's a good one for handling wet doughs.