ovenspring not what it should be
Hi, I am new to baking bread.
I am making a high hydration, long fermented sourdough loaf (one recipe 75%, one 80%), no yeast. I am using a dutch oven, brush the top of the loaf with water, and score. Pre-heat oven and dutch oven about 45 minutes at 480 (the max safe for my DO). Final proof until passes finger test and seems to have good rise (hard for me to be sure if doubled or not). I don't have any bannetons yet so am proofing in bowls. Start out with lid on DO 15 - 20 minutes then lid off until dark golden brown with blisters. When I take out of oven and knock on bottom of loaf it sounds hollow. Taste is great but I'd like to get more oven spring. I'm only getting about 50% what I see in photos.
Appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks so much!
Ann
to see a picture of the dough when it hots the dough and another one when you think it is properly proofed. No spring is almost always due to over proofing.
high hydration dough in my baskets and just place the boule after final shaping on parchment paper covered with a bowl, to be placed into the dutch oven when ready. Yes is spreads out pretty good but does fit once I deem it's proofed enough, and I think my minimizing the handling of the dough helps the oven spring.
needs when proofing. Low hydration dough is OK to proof on parchment unsupported.
ciabatta ;)
so that doesn't count and neither does glass bread, focaccia, cornread or any other bread usually proofed free form.
and method would help.
I really appreciate the trouble shooting help.
I don't have any pictures this time but will make sure I take some next time I bake, just in case.
The recipe I am using is: 52g 100% hydration starter fed within 6-8 hours, 875 g water, 562 g AP flour, 562 g bread flour, 150 g whole wheat flour, 25 g salt, 50 g water. Mix starter, flour and the 875 g water and autolyse 6 hours. Dissolve salt into remaining 50 g water and fold, mix into dough. Let sit 30 minutes stretch and fold. Bulk ferment in refrigerator 2 - 4 days. It makes enough for 3 loaves and I usually make 1 at a time so some dough cold ferments 2 days the rest 3 or 4. The recipe says you can cold ferment up to a week but I haven't tried that long yet. When take out of refrigerator let come to room temp then pre-shape, shape, proof and bake. I've only tried long fermentation recipes because it makes the gluten digestible for people who are gluten intolerant like me :)
The other recipe I've tried is an even higher hydration and as a beginner I found the dough really sticky and difficult to work with so I'm trying to improve my skills before I try that one again.
Thanks again!
Ann
Perhaps rearranging the recipe to 50% starter then after kneading till full gluten formation do all the bulk ferment in the fridge. After 24 + hours you can then take some off, shape and final proof. Could be a better way round.
Do you particularly wish for such a long bulk ferment in the fridge?
From the little information out there that I have been able to piece together it is the long bulk ferment in the fridge that somehow transforms the gluten and makes it digestible for those with gluten issues. It is this transformation of the gluten I am after.
When you say 50% starter are you saying 50% hydration starter instead of 100%?
I'd like a second opinion if my idea is a better one. It is the nature of sourdough and it's Fermentation process that makes it better for those with gluten intolerance. When I say 50% starter I mean 50% of added flour. So if a recipe has 500g flour then you'd be looking at 250g starter.
Oh wow, that is a huge difference in the amount of starter I am using. I'll be curious to see if someone has a second opinion on that. Thanks for your creative thinking.
Because you're doing a long bulk ferment in the fridge. Might be a good idea to increase the starter with all the bulk ferment in the fridge. Normally I keep my starter at 10-30% but your method is different. Unless you wish to change your method.
Have a look into Yohan Ferrant's Do Nothing Bread. High hydration, low inoculate (1% starter) and 24 hours room temperature. Supposed to bring out the best in sourdough healthwise.
Have you made his do nothing bread? I have the recipe but haven't tried it yet. The 90% hydration kind of intimidates me because I thought the dough would be really tricky to work with.
Is what he recommends for his 60:40 whole-wheat:bread flour mix. But he also says there will be a range. It has to be high hydration for no knead to work but you can play around with the hydration.
My friend has done 75% hydration all bread flour and it works very well. Of course the more wholegrain you introduce the higher the hydration should be.
The shaping is more like a ciabatta as well so doesn't have to be perfect. Quick shape and you're done.
I agree that 90% is very intimidating and I don't like it either. But I have done it and it produces a very nice bread. Of course the height will suffer at that hydration but I think this bread will be very good for you.
Has it got to be a very long fridge ferment. I'm wondering if a regular sourdough, and time scale, will still be beneficial.
Thanks for the tips! I will play around with this.
Many find it easier to digest. Another thing to look into.
I have not tried spelt. That is a good idea. I also noticed you said the height suffers as hydration increases. I'm thinking that may be part of my issue. I'm comparing my loaves to pictures from those who are experienced bread bakers and may be using lower hydration levels. So many variables.....
two different breads with different flours and hydration. There are many factors.
I think spelt would be good for you however spelt ferments quicker than normal wheat and you can't always do a straight swap especially when utilising a very long ferment. Spelt works better at a different hydration too.
Try this recipe http://breadtopia.com/spelt-bread-recipe/
Thanks for sharing the link. I will give it a try.