The Fresh Loaf

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Ugly hearth loaves

LittleHearth's picture
LittleHearth

Ugly hearth loaves

Hi All!

I've got a problem. I've been baking occasionally for a couple years using the Tartine Bread book/cast iron combo cooker method and had great results pretty much every time.

But now I want to bake more than two loaves at a time and I'm trying to bake on a stone with steam from the bottom with rags and also a cast iron, and spritzing the loaves right before they go in the oven. 

Im getting good oven spring and the taste and texture are stil very good, but these loaves are just ugly! No blisters or deep caramelization on the crust, and the oven spring is sort of random and haphazard so the loaf ends up overall shaped like a pillow or whoopie cushion and is just a mess on top. 

Move tried a few different things but I don't know what exactly the problem is. Is it just not enough steam? Its a gas oven. 

Here are more photos, plus comparisons with my cast iron combo cooler loaves. 

 

 

LittleHearth's picture
LittleHearth

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

I know this is not the answer you were looking for, but I sometimes bake eight loaves in smaller cast iron pots in my oven, and it works fine. Mind you I also bake six to eight on two granite slabs, free-form, with bottom steam and it also works fine. But I understand from others that gas ovens are a problem for being too dry and dispersing steam too quickly, so the multi-pot solution might work. Otherwise you can also try covering the loaves with a deep roasting pan (or lid), or a large, deep steel insert for a commercial steam table (you can often buy these used online or from a local restaurant supply place).

Here is one of the smaller sized steam table insert pans that I use to cover rye breads baked in normal bread pans. Works a treat for keeping the moisture in.

There are other things for you to tweak as well, such as shaping technique, scoring, timing of the proof (i.e. when do you put the loaves into the oven - it might be different for hearth baking than it is for baking in a dutch oven), oven settings and even transfer technique - do the loaves stick to the peel when you transfer them into the oven? That can result in mis-shapen loaves (I know; been there, done that!). Try parchment.

LittleHearth's picture
LittleHearth

Those are some good ideas! Thank you for the pics. I've also thought about just investing in a Rofco, but time will tell!

LittleHearth's picture
LittleHearth

Hi Lazy Loafer--what size and brand are those cast iron dutch ovens pictured in your oven?

Thank you.

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

They're both Lagostina. The black ones are 2.8 liters and the enamel ones are 2.5 liters. The black ones are a little taller and narrower than the enamel ones, so they fit on the bottom deck only with the lids off. I rotate the pots halfway through cooking when I take off the lids. They are a perfect size for 600 to 750 grams loaves. I unmold the dough onto squares of parchment paper, score them then lower them into the hot pots, so no problem with burning myself (unless I forget the oven mitts when putting the lids back on!). Here is a picture of loaves in the pots:

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

Can you give me the dimensions of your black pots? I can only fit 2 Dutch ovens in mine at the moment but they are 5 quart Dutch ovens. I couldn't find the dimensions of the black ones on the Canadian Tire website Or on the Lagostina site. 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

They are:

  • Top diameter - 21 cm
  • Width across handles - 27.5 cm
  • Bottom diameter - 18 cm
  • Height - 12 cm
  • Height with lid - 18 cm
Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

You must have a much much bigger oven than I have. I just measured and I think I might fit 3 in my oven and that would be it. There is no way I could stack two layers. How high are  the orange ones? I might be able to stack those if I put the bottom rack not on the rails but resting on the bottom curve of the frame. Do you have any problems with burned bottoms or does switching them half way solve that issue?

And my apologies to the OP for high jacking part of the thread. 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Yeah, I can only fit three in my smaller oven downstairs too. The upstairs oven is a largish Whirlpool electric wall oven, but still only a domestic model. One thing I like is that the bottom element is enclosed (under the oven floor). The orange ones are about 13 cm tall with the lids on, but are 22 cm in diameter at the top (29 cm across the handles), so they take up more room that way.

I don't have a problem with burnt bottoms, probably for two reasons - yes, I do switch them halfway through baking (when I take the lids off), and I change the oven temperature. So, I heat the pots to 475F for about 45 minutes, then load the dough, put on the lids and put them all back in the oven, and immediately put the temperature down to 450F for 25 minutes. When I take the lids off, I switch the pots around then turn the temperature down to 425F for a further 20 minutes (these are times for 600 gram loaves of multigrain).

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

Then I would be able to fit 6 smaller loaves in my oven. The element is under the floor in mine too. That's why I would be able to use the curve at the bottom to hold the rack. This oven is so much smaller than the Dacor I used to have but it was one of the few replacements that would fit in the space and still be an under-counter oven with a separate cooktop over it. Thank you so much for the info!

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Keep an eye on your local Canadian Tire flyer. These pots seem to go on sale fairly regularly at up to 70% off; awesome deal! That's how I ended up with so many of them. :)

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

On our trip to Duluth, my daughter found 3quart Dutch ovens for $29.99. Even with the exchange, that is a steal so I picked up 6 of them. And they are a pretty teal colour!

Here is the link for anyone wanting to scoop some up!

http://www.target.com/p/dutch-oven-trout-stream-threshold/-/A-51291993?lnk=rec|mwebpdph2|related_prods_vv|mwebpdph2|51291993|1

 

 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Isn't it so satisfying, when you get a deal like that? And much prettier than my orange ones. :)

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

I love the colour and I checked when we got home. 6 will fit in the oven. So yay!

I just might start selling a few loaves to friends. Just maybe... 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

You go girl! :)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Either the crust set too soon before the oven spring or the loaf wasn't proofed long enough before it went into the oven.  Too much tension between the crust and the inside crumb wanting to expand more.

Need to find out what was keeping the crust from expanding evenly.   Especially this part of the crumb shot suggests not enough heat under the loaf and baked too early.  Notice the tightness in the crumb and paleness of the bottom crust.

Looking at the overall crumb shot, the tighter crumb area seems to wrap around the dough with larger bubbles to the inside.  Almost as if during shaping, the end first rolled up could use more degassing.  The remaining dough was degassed more as the dough was rolled up to shape.  Can that be?  

BreadBabies's picture
BreadBabies

I had a similar problem when I spritzed my loaf. The difference was, I spritzed it and put it in the cast iron cooker. It came out ugly.  Do an experiment.  Spritz it exactly like you've done, but still cook it in your combo cooker.  The water mixes with the surface flour and does weird things. It may have nothing to do with the fact that you're not using your combo cooker. That was the case for me.