Shaping Loaf just before Baking - Poor/Dense Crumb?
The past two loafs I have made have had rather dense crumb (very small pores/holes). I wonder if this was due to shaping the loaf right before baking? I've baked 3 or 4 loafs and this didn't happen with my first two. My starter is one month old. I typically use almost all of the starter (probably have 10-20 grams leftover to start new amount). I bake once a week.
My baking process is as follows...
Recipe...
450 g white flour
50 g whole flour
100 g starter
12 g salt
375 g water
Process...
Mix. Stretch and fold every 30 min for 3-4 hours. Allow for bulk rise 1-3 hours or just bulk rise in refrigerator. Keep in refrigerator overnight (anywhere from a total of 12 hours to 30 hours). Let loaf rest on counter as oven preheats. Shape and flour just before baking. Place in dutch oven for 20 min at 500F. Open dutch oven and bake for 45 min at 500F.
Additionally, my bread is not sour at all, any tips on increasing this sour flavor?
Any thoughts?
Increasing sour flavor has also been a quest for me. Living in the Great Northwest, I have had plenty of sourdough bread with a bright tang from bakeries and stores and I LOVE that flavor. I have found that I can get more pronounced sour flavors if I use whole wheat in my starter (instead of all purpose flour) also, I find that having a drier starter can give more sourness. Lately I have been feeding my starter by volume (as opposed to weight) with 1/2 cup water to 1 cup whole wheat. The starter is far thicker than pancake batter, buy not as thick as a wet dough.. And much thicker than when I was weighing out my water and wheat to equal portions. The starter is very active in this thicker state. One blogger mentioned stirring hooch back into the starter if it forms, which I haven't tried.
As for the dense crumb, you might consider letting the dough come back to room temperature before you bake. I imagine it takes the oven about 10 minutes to preheat to 500. I let my dough sit out at room temperature for 2-3 hours in a bread form before putting it into the oven. Best of luck!
Thanks for your reply. Do you find it important to measure water and flour for your starter? I typically try to reach a certain consistency (thereby avoiding measuring using a scale every single day). This seems to work fine at least with respect to maintaining a healthy and thriving colony of yeast. It sounds like our starters are of similar consistency. I've tasted my starter a few times and it is really tangy. A really different flavor in comparison to the dough during bulk rise.
No problem. When I first created my starter this last summer, I was weighing, but started experimenting with different weights and moving to volumes for speed. While I believe in accuracy for consistent results, I like the notion that baking is more of an art than a science, which is validated by so much variation, even between professional bakers. I also find that my starter is pretty forgiving and will take a bit of a beating and still bounce back with whatever I want to try. I have played with different flours as well. I find that like humans, yeast digest whole grains slower than, white flour. I get a full rise and fall with all purpose flour in about 6-8 hours, but with whole wheat flour, or rye or spelt the full rise takes 12 hours or more. You give your complimentary bacteria more time to acidify the starter with whole grains. My starter is also quite tangy. But mixing starter into dough really dilutes that vinegar flavor. It starts to come back as you hit that 24 hour mark of cold fermentation. I also use a higher volume of starter most of the time (like 8oz for a single loaf.) Finally, I recommend avoiding metal at all stages. Bacteria produce great sour flavors, and bacteria do not like metal (something I learned from kefir) So I use glass bowls and plastic or wood spatulas. Happy fermenting!
Plus, a higher ratio stiff starter used an hour after peaking will produce more tang. Get some wholegrain in there too.
Keeping a stiff mother starter fed at a ratio of 1:2.5:5 will increase sour overtime. Then building a levain the same way and using when it's very mature will help. Get 20% wholegrain flour in both mother starter and levain build.
What do you mean by final proofing? Do mean after I pull the dough out of the refrigerator or before i put in the refrigerator? I have been forming the loaf just before baking as I was initially worried about not having a tight enough surface. It would also stick the surface of the metal bowl I would let it sit in the refrigerator, so it would kind of lose its shape trying to get it out (I ordered a proofing basket today).
What does the 1:2.5:5 ratio refer to? Could you provide a little bit more detail? Perhaps a generalized schedule for some of this?
My starter is probably 1/5 whole grain and 4/5 all purpose.
I have not messed with autolyse/levanin stuff as I initially was just so confused by it all. I now understand it more so. I have followed this guys recipe/guidance initially as it was pretty simple and more lenient in times. With some success in actually creating bread, I initially dismissed the need for any autlyse/levanin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSs8w2AAN2w
https://brodandtaylor.com/make-sourdough-more-sour/
There is a part two as well. Just follow the link. A word of caution if you try the recipe in part two. They make no mention of salt or method, only on mother culture and levain build, so factor those in yourself.
A levain is a starter it just depends on your process. A starter is a mother culture and a levain is an off shoot. It all depends on your preferred method when it comes to maintenance and baking.
Doing a bulk ferment and a final proof will greatly improve your breads.
Appreciate the help.
Any idea how you would time the starter and levanin? From my experience, my starter peaks after at least 3-5 hours of being fed. Getting a 250 g levanin to peak would take... 8 hours? Perhaps only a few hours? I'm just seeing how I should attempt this over the weekend. Trying to get my timing somewhat set up.
Before you completely change your starter maintenance and schedule why not conduct an experiment? Build a levain in two stages. First will mimic the proposed starter build and the next will be the actual levain build. Tang in a starter will develop overtime and this way it gets longer to develop. Your first build will take longer as it is a large feed and a stiffer starter. After peaked, even though the same ratio, it'll be quicker.
So night before baking build a starter as described and allow it to mature overnight. First build. The conversion. You don't have to convert your main starter just take some off and build as described.
Come the next morning when it has peaked + at least an extra hour. Then take some off from that and build your levain as described. Now it will be stronger and quicker to peak. Ready for late afternoon. Once peaked wait one hour then proceed onto your dough. Don't forget the salt in the main dough.
Knead till full gluten formation then bulk ferment till doubled. Won't take too long. 2 - 3 hours ish.
Then shape and final proof till ready. About 1.5 - 2 hours but watch the dough and not the clock.
I'm giving times but only as a guide. It depends on a few factors.
Bake in a preheated oven.
To expand a bit on what Lechem said, how long it takes a levain or dough to peak depends on a combination of factors including but not necessarily limited to the activity level of your starter when used, the proportion of starter to flour, the type, the room temp, etc. It's difficult, especially for home bakers, to keep everything constant from bake to bake, so if you're aiming for a levain or dough that's "perfectly ready", the margin for error is substantially greater if you go by time.
That said, part of the art of home bread baking is learning and knowing things like about how much longer or shorter the time to peak is when your room temp is a bit (or a lot) cooler or warmer.
First off , if I were you , I'd address this " shaping the loaf right before baking ".
I'm curious as to where the idea came from . Ciabatta is the only loaf bread that I shape just before baking and that is for about 30 minutes , while the oven heats up .
When baking in cast iron camp ovens , I raise the dough in the iron oven as per any loaf in a pan , and place it into the pre heated stove oven .