Wild Yeast , a problematic name
It seems to me , that the use of the term 'wild yeast' to describe the yeasts and enzymes native to the cereal grains is confusing the issue rather than clarifying it .
Not so long ago , the general consensus seemed to be that wild untamed yeast spore of every stripe were floating about in the air above , waiting for a flour and water batter to settle in and colonize . Then followed a battle royal as the various strains fought for supremacy , foul smells flying everywhere until one species was victorious , and peaceful fermentation broke out.
Further to that , some folk were , and still are , of the opinion that fruit fungi in one form or another needs to be added to the flour and water to provide the much needed fermentation .
We now know those not to be the case , and that the domestic yeasts and enzymes that have cohabited with the cereal for eons are solely responsible for the rising sponge and deserve all the credit .
Our continued use of the term 'wild yeast' does the native yeasts no favors , it leaves the door wide open for the wind blown wild yeasts and enzymes and fruit fungi to come crashing in .
Wild Yeast is a problematic name
Yeast water is wild yeast culture that has no sour component or LAB in it and rises bread just fine with no help from yeast in the grain. Enzymes are not even alive, They are just chemical compounds that act as catalysts in chemical reactions that take place in the dough once it gets wet. Sourdough is wild yeast and lactobacillus (LAB) that live together in a symbiotic way in a culture. Generally speaking, one makes the dough rise by producing CO2 and the LAB produce 2 kinds if acid to make the dough sour/ Wild yeast and LAB to float around in the air and are everywhere. Wild yeast just means that they live and come from nature - the wild.
Happy baking
you have replied to the wrong post , the wrong thread .
I , and my opening post to this thread made no mention of 'Yeast water' what ever that may be .
Good luck in your search for the correct thread , the " Yeast water" thread . :)
Pat
He is using yeast water as an example of a cultivation of natural yeast that is not derived from a cereal grain, but rather fruit skins or some other source, in a liquid environment devoid of any grain.
There is no need of his example , This thread as not about 'yeast water' , he can do that on his own thread, and then you can be his spokesperson on that thread .
On this , a thread that is not about fruit or any foodstuffs that are not cereal grains , such examples are not needed.
MichaelLily , do you have anything to contribute , to the actual topic of this thread that is ? Here is is below , again, in case you missed it the first time ,
cheers , Pat
" ... that the use of the term 'wild yeast' to describe the yeasts and enzymes native to the cereal grains is confusing the issue rather than clarifying it . ..."
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You claim that wild yeast always refers to native yeast present in the flour. You are wrong, as there is at least one example of us using the term "wild yeast" to refer to a yeast that is not native to cereal. That is the point of the example. I agree that there is a lot of mysticism with sourdough that isn't true.
Nowhere do I make the claim that wild yeast always refers to native yeast present in the flour.
This is the confusion:
"It seems to me , that the use of the term 'wild yeast' to describe the yeasts and enzymes native to the cereal grains is confusing the issue rather than clarifying it ."
Wild yeast is usually referring to the yeasts native to the cereal, but wild yeast is also used to describe yeast not native to cereal (yeast water example).
I also dispute the LAB's origin. My sources are old, but it was unknown from whence the LAB come. At that time, it was known that it came neither from the air nor from the flour.
In any case, wild yeast is a term that applies to undomesticated yeasts and their symbionts. There is no confusion other than to those who do not grok in fullness.
There are people here trying to help you. Your rudeness is detrimental to securing that help.
gary
Fulness in waiting is. I think we could all use a little more grokking the sourdough science.
wild once. and I do like fungi. sauteed in butter.
I like butter sauteed fungi on toasted native cereal yeast fermented bread ........ ;-)
are wild, not just the 3 dozen or so usually found in stable sourdough cultures around the world, or the many other kind of cultures too numerous to mention. All of them are wild wee beasties, one of the basic things they have in common - and not to be trifled with!
Doesn't make them any less wild. It's wild because it's coming from nature and needs to be cultivated rather than grown in a lab. You also, when cultivating them, do not pick and choose the ones you want unlike a single strain we know as baker's yeast. A name is just a name. Call it what you want. I just like the bread it produces.
According to you wouldn't 'truely' wild yeast be native to the air?
Perhaps you could articulate your idea a bit more clearly?
-Dave
It clearly distinguishes the yeasts that come (at no extra charge) on grains with which they have lived, presumably, since before those grains were even domesticated, from the mono-clonal, commercially vat-grown yeasts that come in various forms - "fresh," "instant," etc. I usually refer to the later group as "commercial yeast," but perhaps "tamed" or "domesticated" or "industrial" would be more useful names.
David
I am, in turn, confused why in your original post and subsequent comments you seem to avoid word bacteria. Because, you know, they are a key component of what we call wild yeast.
Whatever you want "wild yeast" to be thats fine. Just don't waste anyone's time here - no one has the time in their lives for a trolling bicker-bot.
Wild-Yeast