The Fresh Loaf

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Gray liquid on top...where do I go from here?

scheibe1972's picture
scheibe1972

Gray liquid on top...where do I go from here?

Hey all-

First time here. I got a starter from Amazon and it was working great...until I went to Georgia for 3 weeks and left it all alone in the fridge. I came back to about a half inch of great liquid on top. I've had this happen before, but not so much as I did this time. The first time it happened, it was left in the fridge for less than a month and I think caught it in time. I drained it and fed it and brought it back to life. This time, I have not been so lucky. I have poured off all the liquid. dumped out the bit of discolored starter and re-fed it numerous times. Each time I do, my feedings of the starter rise great, but they grow fast (like maybe an hour or so) then they settle back quickly. It's also very liquid; not sticky as it used to be. I've tried cutting back on the water a bit, but that's not helping at all.

Any clues? Do I need to dump it and start fresh with new starter?

I live in Chicago. I usually keep it in the fridge unless I want to make bread that week and then bring it out to feed. Any other info you may need about my instructions methods?

Thanks for the help anyone!

Adam

MichaelLily's picture
MichaelLily

The liquid is called hooch: it is alcohol. it should be stirred back into the starter when it appears, not drained off. To balance out an overly acidic starter (that's what you have), you wash the culture. To wash a culture: mix it all together, stir in enough hot water (hot, maybe 120 degrees, but definitely not close to boiling) to fill the container. Then empty out most of the container and feed with flour to desired consistency.

I use a quart jar, so I fill the jar with the water and then empty 3/4 or 7/8 of the jar and add flour to that to fill 1/4 of the jar.

If, after this, it is still not behaving normally, wash it again. If it still doesn't worm, it's probably dead.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Feeding amounts and specific details including time allowed to ferment before chilling, please.

scheibe1972's picture
scheibe1972

MichaelLily- Thanks for the info on the washing. I'm going to try that and see what comes of it.

I know about the hooch, but this was much darker than what I usually get. I usually get a semi-clear hooch. I've read elsewhere I should mix it in and also read I should drain it off. Depends on who you talk to I suppose. My main concern is the starter top layer was darker than normal. That concerned me as it never did that before.

Mini Oven- I have it in a Ball Quart size jar. Loosely tightened. When I'm not baking, I feed it about once a week. 1 cup flour + a little less than 1 cup of water. (It's a real thin liquid now. Usually, it's pretty pasty.) I toss it back into the fridge after stirring it around and leave it until next feeding. I've had good luck with it normally. When I'm ready to bake I'll bring it back to room temp and then give it a couple of 1 to 1 feedings, pouring off half each time. It has always rose to the occasion and made decent bread. This last time, it was flat and dense. Hope that helped. If you need more info, please let me know.

Thanks to you both for bearing with me. I'm only about 6-8 loaves in here, so I'm pretty new at it.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

thocken it up to 70% hydration with some more flour before you go and then no worries.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

it up, might want to do that now without adding any water.  

When feeding the unknown portion of starter, a cup of flour, the added flour weighs about 125g. One cup of water weighs about 240g or almost twice the flour.  If the water amount is just under a cup you will have a very thin starter indeed. half a cup of water will result in a 100% hydration and a more concentrated starter per cup when using in a recipe.   That means If the starter culture is very thin, more of it is needed in the recipe and less water is needed to make up the bread dough.  

The food part of feeding a starter is the flour.  Raise or lower the amount to keep the starter fed and happy.  I understand that your starter is fed at room temp several times to raise activity prior to removing a portion to use in a recipe.  What do you do with the remaining starter and how much is it and Do you feed the mature starter prior to chilling?  Unfed mature starter will not last more then several days without feeding.    (If the remaining is about one cup, feed it more flour (with less water) to keep it from starving in the fridge.  

The tricky part of this advice is knowing if the starter has hooch or is simply separating.  Both would have darker water on top after a period of time, whole flours more so.  Hooch would smell strongly of beer or alcohol after warming up to room temp.   An overfed starter (one not allowed to partially ferment before chilling)  may be separating, which it can easily do at 170% hydration.  If underfed, thickening up the starter will help keep hooch from forming as the yeast have plenty of food to work on while chilled.  Temperature in the fridge and room, water and flour type and temps play an important role.  

Everyone is assuming the fridge is just above freezing, the room and ingredients are a balmy low 70's°F and the flour is all purpose.  Please let us know otherwise.

A 70% hydration is a soft dough or thick batter if using AP wheat flour.  A 100% hydration starter would contain equal weight amounts (not volume) of each flour and water.    I'm guessing that your current wet starter is about 150% to 170% hydration  (220g divided by 130g gives 1.7 or 170%)  <--- very runny stuff!    Not to say it is wrong, it's perfectly fine, just that when comparing to reading about other starters, it is good to know just what is being compared.  Very wet starters will not rise much, bubbles tend to rise and pop at the surface without raising the starter mixture, it is simply too thin to trap gas.  Wet starters are still capable of raising bread dough only one tends to use more starter and less water in the recipe.  Wet starters tend to separate before forming hooch and not all hooch is equal.  So stirring up the starter before use depends on the ever changing condition of the starter and the desired effect on the next feeding.  

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

 "...feedings of the starter rise great, but they grow fast (like maybe an hour or so) then they settle back quickly. It's also very liquid; not sticky as it used to be. I've tried cutting back on the water a bit, but that's not helping at all."

Thicken it up.  it's potent and going thru the flour food quickly.  To keep from having bathtubs of the stuff, start with feeding a smaller portion of starter culture, 1/8 cup starter with 1/2 cup of flour and 1/4 cup water.  When the volume has increased by about 1/3  tuck it into the refrigerator.  It should keep for two weeks easy.  

Take the left over mature starter (not being used for bread) and dry it on parchment, wax or plastic wrap.  Brush it out and let it air dry supported on a rack or baking tray.  When completely dry, crumble and seal inside a jar. Store in a cool dark place as back up.

 

scheibe1972's picture
scheibe1972

Mini- First of all, thanks so much for the novel! ;) You guys are really into this and help out your fellow comrades! It's appreciated greatly.

I do feed my starter before chilling. I usually keep about a 1/2 cup of starter, give it 1 cup of AP white flour and then maybe 3/4 cup of water. Stir and fridge it.

Also, temps in the house are about 72ºF. Fridge is about 44ºF, according to my thermometer.

I brew (which, I do better at) as well, so I have a nose for the smell of beer. ;) The hooch has been separating more in the fridge, so I think I'm on the right track with it being too thin and needing more flour to feed on. The starter is probably too wet, as I am getting not a lot of rise, bubbling, but thin bubbles.

I'm trying out Michael's method of "washing" and also yours as well, Mini.

Thanks for the process on creating a backup dry starter as well. I always wondered how they did that. If either method works, I'll be back to let you both know in a day or so.

Adam

scheibe1972's picture
scheibe1972

Both are kicking out some great gas!

Thank you both for your help. I'm going to bake some Monday and see how they turn out. I am so amazed at how fast this stuff snaps back. They were blowing gas out the top of the containers. So much I had to find out what the sounds were coming from. Nice thick starter again. =)

Thanks to all!

Adam

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

More than one way to pep up a starter!   :)