KA sourdough starter triples, but does not rise final dough mix
Hey guys, new to the forum here. I usually post in pizzamaking.com but wanted to get a pair of eyes from all the amazing artisan breadmakers here :)
I have a roughly 2 week old sourdough starter made from just KA flour and water. It's never been refrigerated and I feed it on a 1:1:1 regimen, starter/flour/water, 40g/40g/40g. It triples within 6-8 hours, and begins to cave at 12 hours. Smells milky and looks very frothy at top. Sounds active right?
Here's the weird part: In pizza dough, we tend to use lower percentages 3-7% of flour weight. I've tried everything from 3% all the way to 30% and can barely get any rise. I use it around the 6-8 hour mark. I ferment my dough at 75F. There are tiny bubbles/holes at the bottom, but there is almost no open-crust formation like you get from IDY/ADY. It just flattens and turns into a pancake and becomes very dense. What the heck is going on? Should I introduce commercial yeast to my starter? I attached some pics:
Phew got that out if the way :)
Need a bit more to go on. Recipe? Method?
100% KA flour
65% water
3% salt
10% starter
I mix starter in water with salt, add flour, autolyse 20 minutes, slap/fold and then form dough ball. lightly oiled bowl and place in pantry at 75F, ideally for 24 hours... but no rise :(
Left for 24 hours in your pantry which is 75°F is waaaay too long. Another thing I've just noticed is the 3% salt. Normal range is 1.8 - 2%. Another problem might be adding your salt to the starter first. Shouldn't make a big difference if within a normal range and quickly done. However that's a lot of salt to add to just 10% starter further compromising it.
A recipe rethink, methinks.
100% KA Flour
65 % water
2% salt
10% starter
Mix the flour with salt and place to one side.
Measure out the water in a bowl, add mature starter and mix till distributed.
Add the flour to the water and form the dough.
slap/fold till full gluten formation
Leave to bulk ferment for 3-5 hours but watch the dough and not the clock.
Carry on as normal...
have you tried 100% like your starter feeds?
Of course you could try 50% starter, 50g starter to 100g flour with water to match your pizza dough hydration. Then I would expect to see some rise in 8 hours or less.
A Starter portion of 25% should give your a 1/3 rise in about 3 to 6 hours, fold then chill overnight under 10°F. Divide and shape with a 3 to 5 hour proof at warmer temps than 75°F. Sourdough is a much slower process than IDY/ADY, much slower! It also needs more folding to build dough strength as the bacteria is working to turn your dough into a puddle. When you see your dough rising more out than up, time to do a series of envelope folds or stretch and folds to get the shape back.
Your next step should be to feed the starter culture 1:2:2 peaking in 8 hours or less. If less, then feed a higher ratio of flour. Adjust the feeding until you have it rising and peaking at about 8 hours to feed at 12 hours for a twice daily feeding.
Thanks for the tips. I'll try to use either 50% or 100% starter... then it won't have any excuse not to rise, except for hydration!
I've never heard of putting the dough at 10F, isn't that basically freezing it? I've heard of cold ferment and putting the dough in the fridge for a day or two.
sorry, you're correct!
It smells "milky?"
It doesn't smell like beer, or have an alcoholic "nose?"
-Dave
It's pizza. What I do for pizza is this:
100 flour
70 water
20 starter
2.4 salt
a little bit of IDY
Bulk for about 2 hours, divide and retard overnight. Have had great results. Very simple. I used to do all SD but I was tired of under fermenting, so I took the easy way out and did a hybrid (I do a hybrid for baguettes, so why not?).