The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Kaiser Rolls

Wernerg's picture
Wernerg

Kaiser Rolls

Hello, I'm new to the forum.  I've been home baking breads of and on for 20 years.  During that time I have had a long running but losing battle with Kaiser Rolls. I cannot get the traditional petal shapes to retain their structure during baking. The purpose of this post is to resurrect this old thread about Kaiser Rolls from 2008 that I found by googling. 

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/recipes/kaiserrolls

In the comments below the forum post, nbicomputers adds a comment with his own recipe and later adds a video clip of how a kaiser roll is folded into it's traditional shape.  The video quality is not great but the content is wonderful and shows exactly how a Kaiser Roll is formed.  My problem is that there is no information about what happens next.  After folding, the dough quite small in diameter and fairly tall.  The best book recipe I have (The Village Baker, Joe Ortiz) says to put the formed rolls between two cookie sheets and weight them down with a cast iron frying pan to get them to expand in diameter during proofing rather than rise up.  I've tried cast iron frying pans, multiple soup cans spread around the surface of the cookie sheet but every thing I try ends up obliterating the folds and I end up with something like the image above.

What I think I'm stuck on is getting the folded dough to expand in width without losing the petal structure.  It is not clear from this post whether anything is done to force the rolls to expand in width so I'm confused about how that happens.  

Thank you.

Werner

 

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

great baking book Inside the Jewish Bakery.  He has passed now but his video on how to properly shape Kaiser Rolls the old fashioned way is still on YouTube and one of my favorites of an ex Fresh Lofian doing his thing to teach the rest of us how to do it right - at least the part he didn't forget!

Happy Kaiser Roll Shaping

Wernerg's picture
Wernerg

I think that's the video that was in the original post.  I just found this link in another post here at freshloaf that shows the same folding technique in a much clearer video but in German.  It shows that the folded rolls are not weighed down during the final rise but allowed to rise upside-down without weight so I guess that answers my question.  The rolls in the German video look like the right size.  He also used a lot flour when doing the folding, apparently to keep the seams from disappearing like mine did. 

Thank you.

Werner

vivienf's picture
vivienf

After forming the Kaisers, put them on floured baker's linen petal side down, and cover with remaining linen for their final proof. This way, they don't lose their shape. BTW, here is another great Kaiser shaping video (from a marvellous Austrian baker I've been known to waffle on about, named Dietmar Kappl): Handsemmeln Formen. He also has a great recipe for real Austrian Kaisers (called Handsemmeln - hand buns - in Austria) on his site: Handsemmeln. If you need help translating, I'd be more than happy to do that.

Wernerg's picture
Wernerg

Thank you. The base recipe that I've been using had the folded rolls rising between weighted baking sheets and that is the problem. The video makes it clear that properly dusting the disks before folding is important to getting the bloom. Thank you very much for this link.  

Werner

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

with the folding, using it on the outside or bottom side of the rolled out disk.  Try to keep the top of the disk free from flour with the first fold.  Important is to keep several steps going at the same time in order to allow rests between shaping a round and flattening out the dough before folding.  

Note that in the excellent video from Herr Kappl, the first 6 rolls are rolled out and loosely stacked, then before shaping the pile is flipped over with the most relaxed disk on top.  As the roll balls have sat relaxing, it is no longer necessary to flatten out with a roller and making the disk shape can be combined with the folding.  

Rye flour prevents the sections from sticking together and they separate nicely.  On the last fold, If you have over stretched the edge while working, push in some of the edge of the opening (where your thumb was) to thicken the dough which forms the first "petal."  Pinch near the base to seal.   Let formed rolls rise upside down after shaping but only for about half an hour.  Then turn over, Brush with water or a  little egg or just dip tops in a shallow bowl of whole milk (with maybe a pinch of malt and salt.)  Then let rise fully under a damp cloth. Dab on a little more milk if needed before baking with plenty of steam.

Mini

Wernerg's picture
Wernerg

The last few steps after folding are very helpful.  I didn't have a good procedure for the final rise and bake.  I did use plenty of steam and the crust on my misshapen rolls was quite nice.  

Thanks again

Werner