January 13, 2017 - 6:41am
Optimal time to use starter for a levain build?
Hey guys so what is the verdict on the float test for starter?
I have a 100 % hydration starter that I feed twice a day for a couple of days before baking (it's all rye flour), I took it out the fridge Wednesday evening fed it, fed it Thursday morning and fed it Thursday night, Friday morning I went to see if a little piece would float and nothing.
My starter is doubling in size, but I can't seem to figure out when the optimal time to use my starter for a levain build.
How many hours after feeding, some say around 8 hours after a feeding? It is winter in Texas so it is a lot colder than it was the rest of the year, I was usually able to use my starter 3 to 4 hours after feeding it.
Can someone explain this to me a little more?
Share
When weather gets colder, it can be that you need to have a larger amount of starter to feed to keep with your 4 hour schedule. If in summer you fed 30g of starter, then you might meed 60g of starter to get the same behaviour. (more info would be helpful)
About the floating... seems to me we need to document some bubbly ripe just-before-peaking (not necessarily doubling, could be more) starter and drop a blob into some water. See if it swims and how high it swims. Rye is pretty heavy stuff and I can't imagine it floating too easily. Cameras and Rye Loafers get ready! Mention the type of rye, hydration and spoon some into water and let's see it swim... or sink! Post your results, please! Right here in this thread. :)
This should be interesting.
details. I feed my starter, 50 grams starter + 50 g. water + 50 grams flour. I discard 100 and feed the 50 g starter + 50 grams water and 50 grams flour! That is my working recipe for my 100% starter.
I use my local store organic rye flour (it does not state dark or medium), I am assuming medium, it says rye not pumpernickle.
Do you think I should increase my build?
following up on my response on this from your other post...other visual cues, smell, and taste can help (esp for all rye starters). Levaining of bread is again the ultimate measure.
I also mentioned measuring pH (although total acidity is probably better, but I'm not sure about an easy and inexpensive way to do that)...on this front, here is some info from a previous thread:
http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/howdoesonemeasurethephofso.html
"
About what temperature is the starter? In the summer and now?
Pumpernickel would be a coarse ground rye. I would think yours is most likely medium too. I'll wait on the temps before I decide if the 1:1:1 feeding ratio should be changed. The present feeding ratio does leave me to believe that perhaps the starter is over-proofed when float tested. Ive found that many rye flours after being wet for over 8 hours just fall apart and can't hold gas bubbles anymore regardless of chilling. One of the reasons for not retarding high rye doughs with a one step process.
Rye has a brittle matrix and when observed fully risen can hold its outer shape a long time after the inside matrix has collapsed. Poking the domed top with your finger or a spoon to see if it is hollow is one way to see if it is past peak.
thing. The temperature can go from 69 to 80 in my house in a day.
On this page https://www.theperfectloaf.com/sourdough-starter-maintenance-routine/ He feeds the starter at 9am and says that its ready to be used at 8pm.
My starter after this much time does not pass the float test :( Also I have no where as much activity at the top. The thing that is driving me crazy is this particular recipe: https://www.theperfectloaf.com/best-sourdough-recipe/
I just can't seem to develop strength in my dough! During the pre-shape my dough spreads out and doesn't want to hold any tension.
between his maintenance and yours. (he also has a predominantly wheat starter, but I get back to that) (he also feeds his starter more flour)
First things first, I think you need to boost up the yeast activity in your starter. Let's do that by changing the feeding formula. First, for back up, keep some of your present starter in a glass in the refrigerator. Preferably chill a starter that smells stronger than wet rye flour, like the one that sunk and it tastes a little bit sour.
Remove 20g of the sour long fed starter and feed it 80g of rye flour and 80g of not too cold unchlorinated water, not hot either. Mix that all together in the morning, mark the level and let it ferment in the kitchen, covered, out of the sun and out of draft. It would be good to watch it over the day as the temperatures rise. (good this is a week-end) That would be a 1:4:4 feeding ratio. Still 100% hydration as the flour and water weights are equal.
Let the starter reach a maximum peak, wait a few hours, then reduce and feed again with the same 1:4:4 ratio. I think that you will start noticing differences. Take notes to compare. Poke the domed top to make sure it's not faking you out when peaked. Keep track of dates, observations and temps too. Very important when predicting peak. Tasting will let you know how sour the starter is. Sour taste will increase with the bacteria count which I'm pretty sure you have a fair amount. Save the discards (fridge jar) and they can be tossed into some yeasted bread for great additional flavour. Or do some of the suggestions on the perfect loaf link. If the discards are very sour, use a recipe that has a little baking soda in it. That tends to prevent a strong sour taste. And then feed the peaked starter sooner to control the bacteria more.
There is a lot of good information on that site and you may find yourself reading it several times (if you haven't already) picking up on new info you hadn't really noticed before. I still pop in there and have a good read. Found that site when looking for a waffle recipe. :)
"Poke the domed top to make sure it's not faking you out when peaked" What does this mean exactly? Would you say I should wait for 8 to 12 hours?
By reduce you mean discard back to 20 grams starter and feed with 80 and 80 the second time?
You are awesome!
Just to let you know it is something about his particular recipe maybe the super high hydration that is not working I made a bread with girlmeetsrye recipe and the rise was amazing!
"Poke the domed top to make sure it's not faking you out when peaked" makes more sense written....
"Poke the domed top to make sure it's not faking you out when it's passed peak."
By this, I mean that sometimes a domed rising rye starter will peak and then just stay there and not fall down or collapse onto itself. The dome will stay put but the inside foamy starter will slowly loose structure and gas and fall unbeknownst to the observer. A gentle little poke is all you need do and if it is still supporting a rise, it will not be bothered by a gentle poke and just keep rising.
Yes reduce, discard or remove 20 grams to feed the 20g, 80g water and 80g flour for a total of 180g starter... or go smaller to 10g and feed 40g water and 40g flour for 90g of starter... If you want to conserve flour. I wouldn't go under 10 grams.
Maybe I just like to catch the fresh aroma off the starter and look for an excuse to do so. Starter sniffing can be habit forming. :) I got a lovely smelling starter now in the kitchen. It's been fed einkorn, spelt and AP in a rye base. Guess I better find a recipe... It's a fresh nutty rich aroma I can't get enough of.
I put a dab of the foamy puffed up starter in a glass of water and it sort of sank as parts were torn off the floating- just under the surface. So much invisible current in a glass of water! Resembled a white tornado with a tail dropping bits to the bottom of the glass. Not impressive. No wonder it doesn't get photographed much. :)
float test. If it did it would mean something is very, very wrong with it
No Muss No Fuss means never having to try to see if it floats.... among other things:-)