December 24, 2016 - 12:51am
Help with Overproofing
Hi, I have a hard time understanding overproofing:
1. Does this term refer to the the bulk fermentation process or to the proofing process? In other words, am I at risk of overproofing if I leave for BF to long or if I leave the dough to proof for too long?
2. Secondly, the finger-poke test - is this done to the dough at the end of the BF phase or at the end of the proofing phase?
THanks!
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There is a difference between over fermentation and over proofing.
If it is over fermented it's always over proofed.
But over proofed doesn't necessarily mean over fermented.
If you have over proofed after final shaping but it's not over fermented then shape and proof again. However once it's over fermented ifs pretty much over. There is a last resort to save it by adding more flour, and salt, till you have a semblance of a dough again then a quick final proof again.
But having said all that it is common for people to mix up the terminology.
Finger poke test can be done at both stages but more common at final proof stage.
Well then, how do I know the difference between over fermentation and over proofing?
If it has over fermented the yeast would have eaten through the gluten and the dough will have turned to goo.
If you have simply over proofed, in the true meaning of the word, this means you've allowed it to rise above the optimum level for good oven spring but still within the time limit. The dough still has gluten structure. So you'd shape and final proof again.
What I meant of course is how can I know if my error was over fermenting or over proofing?
Your error will be noticed before baking. If everything seemed to go well till the oven then probably an issue with proofing.
are broken and the dough turns to goo but it isn't the yeast that do that nor is it the LAB if sourdough bread. Gluten is formed when 2 proteins found in flour get hydrated. These protein chains can be destroyed by protease enzymes which also start working to break them when they get wet too. The higher the temperature the faster these protein chains get broken.
Most recipes are designed to keep the temperature and times within a rspecific ange so that protease doesn't destroy all the gluten. But some protease activity is wanted in bread making. If there was none, then the dough would be too elastic and not extensible, It is the ability of dough to be able to stretch and expand while not tearing that makes it the wonder it is - elastic and strong enough but extensible and stretchy enough too. It is just the right amount of protease activity that allows this wonder to happen.
http://www.classofoods.com/page1_7.HTML
Happy Baking
So many aspects to bread baking. I'll read up on that. Thanks for the explanation and link.
Jen, I am no expert, but as I understand it, either term in essence means that the yeast have exhausted their food supply, and have started to die off. When we bulk ferment, we want to redistribute the yeast before they have exhausted their food supply ( what used to be called knocking down the dough, but is now often called preshaping) Yeast can not travel, so once they eat what is nearby, they die. By pre shaping, the yeast get moved around, and have another supply of food, and will then cause the bread to rise again in a final proof. If during bulk ferment, you let it go too long, some percentage of the yeast have died off, and when you shape for final proof you will not get much of a rise. If you overproof in the final proofing stage, the bread will rise right after shaping, but then start to fall either before you get it into the oven, or while it cooks. IMO, determining the exact stages of proofing is very difficult, and at best, if you make the same recipe over and over, you get a feel for what the dough looks and feels like when it is ready. I usually monitor bulk ferment by a straight sided container, with a rubber band, so I can tell whether it has increased in volume as described in the recipe.
You can do a simple test to see what over proofing looks like by making a loaf of dough, doing a normal bulk ferment, and then shaping into 8 or 10 small rolls for the final proof - then put one in the oven every half hour. The first one will have very little rise, because it is underproofed, the next will be better, and so on, until you get towards the end you will feel the dough is very fragile, and collapse as you try to load it into the oven and their will be no oven spring. Unfortunately, that won't help you all that much when you do a regular sized loaf, because proofing doesn't scale directly with dough size, but if you want to see the impact of over proofing, that will show it.
You could do the same type of test of over fermenting - knead the dough, then separate into 10 balls, and let them bulk ferment for varying times before you shape. You will notice that the first ones will be very stiff, as you approach ideal bulk ferment development, the dough will feel light and full of air, when you get way past full ferment, the dough will collapse in your hands as you try to shape it and will get very sticky. Again, you really can't use this as a time indicator, but it will give you an example of what it feels and looks like.
To make things harder, no only will fermenting and proofing vary based on flour type, amount of yeast, and room temp, hydration will alter how it looks and feels at any stage, so if you want to really perfect it, you have to make a recipe a number of times , under proofing on some, over proofing on others, till you really get a feel for that recipe.
Proofing is a by-product of fermenting. Through fermenting the dough rises. So easy to see why over proofing and over fermenting are used synonymously.
The gluten is like a balloon and the yeasts belch gas. The gas fills the balloon and you get a risen loaf of bread. But like a balloon the dough won't be able to hold the gas if over risen. Hence over proofed will result in a collapsed loaf.
However this doesn't mean the yeast has exhausted all the food. It just means the gluten has been stretched too much. The gluten is still present and the dough still has strength. If this is the case then one can reshape and proof again.
When over fermented the yeast has eaten through all the food and attacks the gluten. This is when the dough turns to goo. Has no structure.
So an over fermented dough is inevitably over proofed but not vice versa.
I was unaware that the yeast died when it ran out of food...my understanding is that they become dormant? Kind of like when you dry your culture for future use...yeast still there but not active. Am I missing something here?
Puts them into suspended animation. Allow them to run out of food and not replenishing will kill them off.
That makes sense, thanks for the explanation!