new kitchen mixer
I am looking to buy me and my wife a mixer. We make lots of cookies, pizza dough, and cake. We currently have no mixer, other than me and my wisk.
I have been looking at kitchen aid mixers - but I would consider myself a little more knowledgeable about the subject than the average consumer. I know that Kichenaid had issues using plastic gear box's, resulting in broken machines. I know that consumers are 'overloading' their kitchenaid mixers and burning them up ... but I tend to side with the consumer on this argument. The mixer should mix. If it has a dough hook, it should be capable of mixing dough without burning itself out and at least have capable safety mechanisms to prevent a total failure.
More importantly, I know that Kitchenaid machines have an overstated quality claim because of their original - Hobart Made - machines. Hobart no longer makes KA machines, and thus the quality isnt the same as those 30 year old mixers.
With that said - i've looked at the 7qt KA mixer that has the new DC motor. 1.0 or 1.3 HP motor. I would much rather have a Hobart n50 ... but holly cow is it expensive. The reviews on the 7qt KA are really hit and miss.
Thoughts?
and I think it is a well made machine, ten years of making bread, pizza and various cookies and cakes without a hick-up. If you understand that just because it comes with 6 quart bowl doesn't mean it is meant to make that much bread dough in one go.
Gerhard
i am currently trying to research home cook stand mixers but have received mixed reviews. what is the TRlers opinion of bosch & cuisinart stand mixers? i am currently using a 30+ yo sunbeam food processor for mixing cookie dough & a bread machine for mixing bread dough. fyi, i have broken both wrists in the past; the right one required 3 surgeries & an external fixator. kneading dough by hand is very difficult for me.
would love some advice on any & all kitchen stand mixers.
thanks & merry christmas/happyhannukah
claudia
I am far from an expert and cannot compare the available machines, but if it helps, all the Jewish women in Brooklyn that make challah every week with bags that are 5-7 lbs. go with Bosch Universal Plus. I've never seen a KA or any other machine used there. So, of course it's not to say that the more expensive pieces will not be much better, but I don't think you'll go wrong with the BUP.
Thank you for your opinion on the BUP. I have several friends that have one &they love it. I may have problems lifting a KA Pro as I am 5' 0 " and do not weigh a lot.
claudia
I burned out the gears on 2 of my Kitchen Aid mixers and after replacing them twice my wife banned me from using them for bread! I bought the BUP and have not looked back. It's ideal for bread dough, pizza and does just fine for cookies and cakes as well.
I have a KA mixer, and use it for small batches without too much trouble. That said, if I was to buy another one it would be a bowl lift model, not a tilt head. And a Pro model (6 or 7 quart) is much better for bread. Or you could go expensive and get an Ankarsum. :) I wish...
Thank you Lazy Loafer. I'm not sure I could lift a KA Pro w/o a lot of difficulty. Not able to go with an Ankarsum (sigh).
claudia
Do you mean lifting the whole mixer, or operating the bowl lift lever? I think you could do the latter with your elbow, actually. I have arthritis in my hands (and have broken one wrist), and lift the whole mixer off the counter when I need additional room by putting one forearm under the back of the mixer head and one under the front of the base rim. It takes practice, but it works! Mind you, that's the smaller Artisan mixer, not a Pro, but I don't think they are too much heavier. I'm talking the 6 liter / quart model here.
i mean lifting the entire mixer before & after each use. I don't have room to store it on my kitchen counters, so I would need to store it in a pantry & carry it back & forth each time. I wouldn't have problems with the bowl lift lever.
thanks, claudia
Claudia, sorry to hear about your trouble with your wrists. I have never tried the cuisinart, but did have an old sunbeam mixer, and have a Bosch Compact, and have owned a Bosch Universal. The Compact is very tiny, and has a small bowl, but it is a workhorse on anything other than high hydration loaves. If you can live with the bowl size, and you probably can if you are using a food processor. I think you will be very impressed with the guts of this machine. The Bosch Universal, which is no longer made, and the Universal Plus, are both a big step up from the Sunbeam. The BUP can handle much larger loaves than the Compact, and has tons of power. For small amounts of dough, or certain hydrations, it can pose a challenge due to the designed of the dough hook . Some have reported that they don't like cleaning the BUP bowl, due to the center column, others don't have a problem.
Thanks Barry for you input. I'm leaning toward the BUP. Neither my food processor nor my bread machine are capable of mixing more than 1 batch of dough at a time. I would like to make double batches of bread & other baked goods at one time. My friend has a KA Pro 7 qt that she bought for tamale making; it is too heavy for me. I'm still researching and appreciate everyone's input on different mixers.
claudia
Claudia, I have a Bosch mixer, my second, and an very happy with it. However 2500 grams is the largest batch I have mixed in it. I mix my larger batches, 3000 - 4000 grams by hand using stretch and fold. Since these are high hydration doughs, it might handle it very well.
I have some Euro-bread friends and they all swear by the center mixer style stand mixer like the Bosch Universal Plus https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-Stainless-Steel-Universal-Mixers/dp/B00173UMTI/ref=sr_1_26?m=A2ZSKD9XTAUO8T&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1482470993&sr=1-26
but buy the stainless bowl more durable. https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-Stainless-Steel-Universal-Mixers/dp/B00173UMTI/ref=sr_1_26?m=A2ZSKD9XTAUO8T&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1482470993&sr=1-...
and the Ankarsum Mixer/formerly Electrolux. for large dough situations. They say you don't end up with the walking mixer or the dough crawl up the dough hook. and both will do over 6.5qt as a mixer. http://pleasanthillgrain.com/ankarsrum-swedish-stand-mixer-heavy-duty-kitchen-mixer
Like KA of old people that have these pass them down to children. I still have my Cuisinart Food Processor that was passed down from my mom only 7qt. but over 30 yrs. old and still works, they were originally made by Robocoup who still make Magimix now the junk is made in China not france..Wouldn't buy a Cuisinart food processor today. Not made to last, and Question KA quality.
But the new Direct motor is encouraging, and they have a commercial grade 8qt mixer on Amazon too that sounds interesting. https://www.amazon.com/KitchenAid-KSMC895DP-8-Quart-Stand-Pewter/dp/B00QTGTSCU/ref=sr_1_95?ie=UTF8&qid=1482471598&sr=8-95&keywords=kitchenaid+stand+mixer
hope this helps.
thank you for your excellent review.
claudia
You might want to crap shoot on something like this 7qt. commercial too! https://www.amazon.com/M-B7-Commercial-Quarts-Heavy-Duty-Restaurant/dp/B012BSLNTK/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1482472040&sr=8-16&keywords=commercial+stand...
or go for broke the Avantco10qt commercial mixer for a bit more..https://www.amazon.com/Avantco-Driven-Commercial-Planetary-Stand/dp/B01K51IRM6/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1482472040&sr=8-14&keywords=commercial+stand+mixer
Personally this is my next mixer..https://www.amazon.com/Ankarsrum-Original-6220-Stand-Mixer/dp/B00CA8NXSG/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1482472500&sr=1-1&keywords=ankarsrum%2Bmixer...
Both my machines are over a decade old. I use the KA for smaller batches (bread dough, cookies, cakes, whisking egg whites, etc) and the Anksarum for larger amounts. At this point, my experience with the Anksarum is far superior to the KA in most respects. It's quite powerful enough for my needs, rests rock-solid on the counter even at the highest speeds, and is much easier to work with because the design of the machine permits easy and safe access to the bowl's contents while it is running. Adding flour to the bowl of my KA (and any of the several other machines that are KA knock-offs, including the Cuisinart) can result in its throwing flour around your counter, in my experience, even with the splash guard. I cannot recommend buying a KA at all. The Bosch machines are the only other ones I could recommend.
thank you for your review rich
claudia
The Ankarsrum (under whichever brand name they're using this week :P), was and is my choice for any use beyond what you'd use a Mixmaster stand/hand combo mixer for.
I've done every mixing chore imaginable in mine, from whipping one to a dozen egg whites (made angel food cake just yesterday) to creaming sugar for cookies to kneading very stiff doughs for bagels.
I bought mine here. I have no interest in PHG beyond having bought mine there. They're good people to do business with.
gary
You are clearly set in your decision not to buy a KA, so you are down to two options - a Bosch, if you only do small batches, and an Ankarsrum if you make large ones.
suave,
i'd like to make 2 - 2# loaves of bread or 2 batches of cookie dough at a time. This seems to be maybe a medium batch at best but I am probably wrong. My 30+ yo Sunbeam food processor can handle 1 batch of cookie dough (2-1/2 to 3 cups flour) at a time and my Welbilt (15 yo) bread machine can handle 4 cups flour per batch. what would you consider large batches?
BTW, I'm not set against the KA but I've had several friends have problems including walking with their newer (~ 0-5 yo) KA's.
thanks, claudia
By my count 2 2lb loaves of bread equate to about 5 lb of dough - my KA is an older 5qt bowl lift model and for it I would consider a batch like this to be, depending on hydration, a serious to criminal overload. That being said, my KA weighs something like 30lb, and I am not certain what I need to do to make it walk.
Claudia, I also have an Ankarsrum, and I love it, though you would likely want to see if you can see one in person - the machine is pretty heavy duty, and not all that heavy, but the stainless steel bowl has quite a bit of weight to it, and you may be happier with the lighter BUP and its plastic bowl. According to Amazon, the BUP weights 12.3 pounds, the Assistent weighs about 20 pounds.
The Bosch doesn't do small batches very well, nor does it handle wet dough. I relegated mine to the attic.
The KA doesn't do well with wet dough.
The Ankarsrum is the perfect bread mixer, but probably isn't good for much else.
http://breadtopia.com/store/bosch-dough-hook-extender/
Thank you. I'm pretty sure that wasn't available when I was still trying to make the Bosch work. There was some other product for sale that claimed to solve the problem, but reviews said it didn't work well. And I was pretty frustrated at all the attachments I had to buy to make the Bosch work for its intended purposes...dough scrapers, cookie paddles, batter whips, etc.
I now just use the food processor for small batches when I intend long fermentation; otherwise, the Ankarsrum does a good job.
I had an older Kitchenaide and burned it up on some stiff dough. I replaced it with the Ankarsrum and I am not at all impressed.
The ankarsrum has a very different way of mixing and kneading. In effect, the dough is rolled and is supposed to be squeezed against the moving bowl. As far as I can see, very little actual mixing takes place unless I stand right there and use a wooden spoon to keep things happening.
If I just leave the Ankarsrum alone while kneading dough, many times the dough climbs up out of the bowl onto the counter.
Anyway, I am looking at replacing the Ankarsrum with the new 7Qt Pro Kitchenaide that has the new powerful motor. . .
P.S. Cooks Illustrated rates the new 7Qt Pro Kitchenaide as their #1 choice. They did not test the Ankarsrum though.
I've been mixing all different kinds of dough with my Anksarum for over a decade without difficulty. I don't use the roller mixing attachment for bread, only the dough hook. I do use the roller for cakes and cookies, again without difficulty.
I don't think you'll have difficulty selling it. I like mine so much I'd even consider buying another used one. I use mine two-three times a week and yet it bare shows any sign of wear. If you think seriously about selling it, get to me.
I find the Ankarsrum to be an excellent general purpose mixer and a workhorse of a dough mixer/kneader. I don't use the dough hook, as the roller/scraper combo really works the dough better, in my experience. (I might give the dough hook a very slight edge on heavy doughs, ~50-55% hydration, like for bagels.) Lighter doughs, =>60% hydration, can climb the hook, but I frequently leave the roller on its own without any issues.
gary
Hmm. . . Well that is one vote for the dough hook and one against. I don't use the Ankarsrum much, since I like to hand knead/slap and fold. I did use it the other day mixing a 100% rye pumpernickel. Very sticky dough though not stiff. I used the roller/scraper and the Ankarsrum would not even begin to mix the dough unless I stood right there pushing it through the roller, pulling the roller out, pushing it in. . . Without supervision the dough would just climb up and start dumping all over the counter.
This has been my experience every time I use it, but if others are happy, maybe I am doing something wrong.
The spacing between the roller and bowl is important. From your comment, I might hazard a guess your spacing is insufficient. I commonly make 70% hydration, 100% rye pumpernickel, of about 2kg (fits a 13" Pullman pan) with none of your issues, beyond the stickiness that rye always exhibits.
The manual has a chart that suggest spacing and speeds for various batch sizes. Use it as a starting guide. The roller does not need to squeeze the dough or paste more than the depth of the scallops. If the roller arm is slapping its stops, you're either too close, too fast or a combination.
The dough or rye paste should squeeze easily between roller and bowl without your continuing attention. Start off dead slow until wet and dry ingredients are thoroughly mixed. Then you can speed up until the arm starts slapping and back off a bit.
One of the chief advantages of the Ankarsrum is its gentleness. Don't abrogate this by forcing things.
Regarding the hook, I'm not against it, I just get as good a result with the roller for all but really stiff doughs. Regarding the hook, it is very helpful to be sure the clearance between hook and bowl bottom is correct. The manual covers checking and adjusting as needed. I found I needed to increase the clearance a tad to bring it to specs. It's easy to do. As I recall, I used a kitchen match stick and screwdriver.
gary
I've never had the dough climb out, although I don't make large batches. As for initial mixing, I just pull the roller arm to the center a few times and that gets things started.
May I suggest a KA commercial mixer? We had quite a discussion about them here a while back. Someone contacted KitchenAid and learned that the commercial mixers are made to a higher standard than the consumer mixers. Marketing people like to use words like "Pro" and "Professional" to make ordinary mixers seem like something special. If I were to buy a new mixer, I would go for a KA Commercial. Look for the orange power cord.
You can get refurbished ones on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KitchenAid-Commercial-7-Qt-Bowl-Lift-NSF-Stand-Mixer-RKSM7990WH-1-3HPMotor-White-/160975201622?hash=item257adea556:g:y5MAAMXQ9...
Whatever you do, always LISTEN to your mixer's motor. If it's laboring, that is, the motor speed is slowing down, it's probably overloaded and it's time to stop and lighten the load. People who work on mixers tell me that overloading is the main cause of mixer failure. Any motor will fail or its life will be shortened if overloaded.
I have to be careful not to overknead my loaves or else the crusts come out like concrete.
I'm going to do more research on the Bosch Universal & KA Pro. My neighbor offered to let me borrow her KA Pro to see if I like it. I'll start from there.
I have several Mormon friends who own Bosch Universal or Assistent. They might let me borrow their machines for a trial run.
I appreciate all of your opinions & info
Merry Christmas/Happy Hanukkah/Holidays
claudia
I'll put in a good word for the 8 Qt Commercial mixer...I ordered one earlier this year, for the small bakery I work at, and am extremely happy with it. Very powerful, super quiet, especially in comparison to my 6 qt! It's used to prepare a variety of baked goods, everything from cakes/muffins/cookies/breads. No issues, whatsoever. I ordered through WebRestaurantStore, and got a great price...enough of a savings that I was able to order both another bowl, and a second paddle beater. I was on their site yesterday, and the price is even lower than it was in the spring. Also, it accepts the 6 qt bowls/mixing accessories. We also have a 20 qt Hobart, and a 5 qt heavy duty KA, so this mixer size is a good 'in between' for the business.
If you only use the KA for lighter duty: pie crust, small cookie dough batches, whipping egg whites or cream, mashed potatoes - then I think you'll be fine. It's when you push a KA machine into heavier duty things like larger batches of bread dough or grinding meat...that's when you'll get stripped gears and burned out motors. I don't think the KA is made to withstand those kinds of heavy-duty tasks.
However, bread dough doesn't require tons of kneading anyway. Bakeries have mixers because it is impractical to mix super large quantities of dough by hand. For home bakers and the usually smaller batches of bread dough that are made at home, machine mixers are not necessary. Here's a batch of bread I just baked yesterday. Hand mixed and not kneaded (although stretched and folded several times throughout the bulk fermentation stage). Happy Holidays to all!
your breads are beautiful. you stated that you made them by hand w/o a machine. may i ask which recipe you used?
i might try it to see if i'm able to do it by hand w/o a machine. most of my breads have been using the kaf recipes & a few of mini ovens. these were all mixed 1 loaf at a time on the dough cycle of my bread machine and i then proceeded with the rest of the recipe/s.
i'd like to at least try mixing some by hand. i think i'll try that before investing in an expensive stand mixer.
Merry Christmas/Happy Hanukkah/Festivus/Kwanzaa
claudia
claudia
Hi, I'll just add my experience with the KA pro 8qt...has worked flawlessly until I tried to do pannetone recipe the other day...I did the SD version posted recently and instead of the normal recipe I did 1.3x to yield 4 instead of 3 loaves...thread starter said this recipe strained his Bosch...well it was the first time I've strained the KA but it warmed up and I had to stop and let it cool but this was definitely more and heavier dough than the mixer was designed to deal with. For 'normal' doughs (I usually do 1k flour plus add-ins to include starter) it hasn't strained in the least. Lesson for me is that I should have split the pannetone into two batches and now I know better:-)
I have the 7 qt. and love it. I just bought my daughter a 5 qt. since she doesn't do baking like I do, and both have metal gears. Kitchen Aid will tell you what models have the metal gears.
I have the 7 qt. and love it. I just bought my daughter a 5 qt. since she doesn't do baking like I do, and both have metal gears. Kitchen Aid will tell you what models have the metal gears.
I have the 7 qt. and love it. I just bought my daughter a 5 qt. since she doesn't do baking like I do, and both have metal gears. Kitchen Aid will tell you what models have the metal gears.
I have the 7 qt. and love it. I just bought my daughter a 5 qt. since she doesn't do baking like I do, and both have metal gears. Kitchen Aid will tell you what models have the metal gears.
I have the 7 qt. and love it. I just bought my daughter a 5 qt. since she doesn't do baking like I do, and both have metal gears. Kitchen Aid will tell you what models have the metal gears.
I have the 7 qt. and love it. I just bought my daughter a 5 qt. since she doesn't do baking like I do, and both have metal gears. Kitchen Aid will tell you what models have the metal gears.
I have the 7 qt. and love it. I just bought my daughter a 5 qt. since she doesn't do baking like I do, and both have metal gears. Kitchen Aid will tell you what models have the metal gears.
I have the 7 qt. and love it. I just bought my daughter a 5 qt. since she doesn't do baking like I do, and both have metal gears. Kitchen Aid will tell you what models have the metal gears.
Thanks dablues. I'll go to the Kitchen Aid website & search for models with metal gears. Plastic gears were a major issue for me.
Claudia
Here's the full recipe, Claudia:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Natural-Yeast-Sourdough-Bread/?ALLSTEPS
you'll see that the initial dough mix done by hand results in a rough looking dough. The recipe will make six (6), 1 lb. loaves. That's a reasonable amount, I think, for the dough to be mixed by hand. More than that and I'd be looking for a mixer too!
Thank you james. I will definitely try the recipe soon. I could even decrease the recipe by 1/2 or 1/3. Your bread loaves looked beautiful & yummy.
Claudia
Hi
I have had a professional kitchen aid since 2000 however I found with making a bigger batch of bread it was groaning I spent a long time considering getting an Ankarsrum I absolutely love it It took a few batches to get used to it however now it makes great bread You do have to get the spacing of the roller right then it gentley knead the dough I made panettone and stollen for Christmas. I have it since the summer I have started to use it for cakes shortbread too A friend now wants to get one You will never look back if you get one
I like my KA for most things. But if I was mostly making bread, I would go with Bosch (or Ankarsrum, but I am not familiar with that one). Don't get me wrong, I use my KA for bread all the time. I just think the design of the Bosch is better suited to bread and the KA is better suited to cakes, etc. The truth is, with autolyse and S&F, only the first mixing is usually done in my mixer. My KA handles challah just fine. I think pasta is the only time I see the struggle, but nothing major. I also have attachments for the KA that I like.
They all have metal gears except for one failsafe gear which is made of Kevlar. It is designed to strip and disengage the motor if the mixer is overloaded. Without this gear the mixer could overheat or catch fire if severely overloaded or stalled.
A thermo-switch would accomplish the same purpose without causing damage to the appliance. Once cooled down (and the overload relieved), one need only push the reset.
gary
Yes. It's insulting that they try to tell us that failure is really for our own benefit.
Thank you doughooker. I had read some reviews several years ago that said Kitchen Aid had started making their machines with plastic gears. I'm going to look at some tomorrow. I think I've decided on a 5 qt due to the weight of the machine & storage. however, I may change my mind if the 6 qt isn't to heavy for me to lift.
claudia
KitchenAid tried to cut corners several years ago by using plastic gear housings, not the gears themselves. It was a disaster for them as the plastic would melt or break and they had to replace a lot of plastic gear housings with metal ones under warranty. Needless to say they went back to metal gear housings.
Do you know of any make of mixer that uses a thermo-switch? The basic KA mixer design dates back several decades and I don't know if they have modernized the design with a thermo-switch. I know that their higher-end models have DC motors now.
"Do you know of any make of mixer that uses a thermo-switch?"
None that I know of, but other small appliances, yes. E.g. food slicer, coffee grinder, an old, now deceased blender and other appliances I've owned at one time or another. It strikes me odd that any appliance subject to possible overload would not have some form of fuse/circuit breaker.
gary
My Cuisinart 7 quart mixer does, as do some of the KAs.
Looking at the manual for KA Commercial mixers, it appears that they have a thermal cutoff. If it trips, you're supposed to turn off the mixer and let it cool off, then resume mixing.
I've had the Cuisinart SM-55 5.5-quart stand mixer for a few years and like it a lot. I've used it to make dough for 4 loaves, and it worked beautifully. I like that it's not quite as tall as some mixers and so fits easily under my upper cabinets, even with their added light rail molding. They also make a 7-quart model.
i took the plunge and purchased a kitchenaid artisan 5 qt mixer. so far i love it
thank you for all your comments
claudia