The Fresh Loaf

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Have I over-steamed?

Sderci's picture
Sderci

Have I over-steamed?

Hi everyone, I've been reading this forum for years and really appreciate all the help you've given me.

I recently decided to build a little oven-within-the-oven for steaming purposes, along the lines of this thread:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/2410/homemade-steam-maker-bread-baker

Basically, I have a baking stone and a big lid sits on top of it. There's a small hole drilled into the lid, and just after bread goes on the stone, the lid goes on and I inject steam (from a little Bissell steam cleaner) through the hole. The links I had read suggested 10-20 seconds of steam. I take the lid off after 10 minutes.

My first test went great! I baked my normal whole-wheat loaf in a loaf pan using the master recipe from Peter Reinhart's Whole Greain Breads. My first really dark crust ever in my oven, lots of spring, etc.

For my second test I decided to try the transitional rustic bread from the same book, shaped into mini baguettes. It's a 80% hydration loaf with half whole wheat and half bread flour.

My little contraption could only fit three baguettes but the recipe made four. So for the last one, I heated up a baking stone in my toaster oven and baked it in there. Much to my surprise, the toaster oven one came out by far the best:

It rose higher, and had a dark (if not great) crust. The ones from the "steam" oven were pale, and barely rose at all. They were also tough and dense.

Since it was the same dough, baked in two different ovens, I'm assuming that the steam was the main difference. And I'm guessing that 10-20 seconds of steam was too much. When I took the lid off, the surface of the loaves almost looked like bagel dough that had come out of the water.

Of course, the best thing to do would be to just try again with less steam. But until I can do that, I wonder if these pictures are what you might expect from loaves that just had too much steam?

Thanks for any insight!

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I think the small space makes baking a better environment.  If I could fit bigger loaves in it, I would use the toaster oven for every bread bake.  750 g is the max for the toaster oven.  Not that my oven does a bad job the small space of the toaster oven really gets the steam working and the crust is so close to the heating element it browns better and puts better blisters on the crust 

Happy toaster oven baking

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

there's a steaming problem...  Did the one loaf (baked in the toaster oven) land on a slightly cooler stone than the first three?

Would like more detail about the proofing.  Times, temp,etc.

Arjon's picture
Arjon

if not, it's possible your two ovens were at different temperatures even though they were set the same. 

Sderci's picture
Sderci

Thanks for the feedback! I'm guessing the toaster oven stone had to be cooler since that only goes up to 450 in the first place (that's where I had it set for the duration). I've never used a thermometer in there because I've actually never baked in there!

The oven stone sits on the bottom deck of my gas oven, preheated for an hour to 500. I lowered the temperature to 450 when the bread went in. I have in the past used a thermometer in that oven, and it was within 25 degrees or so of wherever I had it set.

Proofing for that recipe is overnight in the fridge for the bulk fermentation, then after shaping the four baguettes, just 45 minutes at room temperature (was probably 75 degrees in my kitchen).

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

had more even heat when comparing the crumb shots.  I'd be temped to lower the stone preheat temp in the gas oven giving the loaf a longer bake before the bottom crust browns too much.  Or slip something between the loaf and the stone half way thru the bake.  Perhaps moving the loaf to a rack above the stone to finish browning the loaf tops.   

Also in comparing crumb shots, the toaster oven loaf looks like it benefitted from the extra proofing time.  

Sderci's picture
Sderci

Thank you Mini, although I should say that all the loaves proofed together and baked at the same time as well. I just preheated the toaster oven at the same time as I preheated the big oven!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

with bread in separate photos. (the back wall is also different colours) 

So the loaves all had the same proofing and bake time.  I am surprised that added steam was used, just covering the 3 might have worked by itself.  Perhaps with a sprinkling of water inside the cover itself.   Steam might have set the crusts too early on the 3 loaves.  The moisture preventing browning.  The gelled crust would have to first dry a bit before turning colour.

Another thought... The baked baguettes make me think the dough was already too hydrated for adding steam.  Perhaps adding steam works better with a low hydration dough.

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

I agree with Mini - with a dough at that hydration you shouldn't have had to add more steam to a closed environment. Just covering the loaves should have kept enough steam in there for the required amount of time (10-15 minutes sounds good). Also, try half whole wheat and half AP flour (not bread flour). That might make them a little lighter and more crisp. And maybe preheat the stone to 475F instead of 500F. The bottom looks a little dark, and the crust may have set before the loaf had a chance to spring. The slashes don't seem to have opened much. Was the dough nice and stretchy and springy when you shaped it? How much did it spread when you put it onto the stones? Over- or under-proofed, maybe?

semolina_man's picture
semolina_man

Sounds like the oven+steam apparatus+method creates temperature fluctuation.  On the other hand, the toaster oven+method seems to deliver more consistent temperature.  Temperature fluctuation seems to be contributing to the difference in results in my view. 

Sderci's picture
Sderci

Thanks everyone. This was my first time trying this particular recipe, in addition to trying the steaming thing. So probably just too many variables. The scoring was almost impossible to do... this recipe confused me a bit because unlike many of his, there didn't seem to be any real surface tension there. He even suggests using scissors to "snip" the slashes for this dough. Basically he says to just divide the dough after the bulk fermentation and transfer it to a baking sheet for the final rise.

The bottom of the oven loaves were really dark, so I may lower that preheat next time!

 

tschaefges's picture
tschaefges

My setup is just like yours, down to the Bissell steam cleaner. I have been experimenting with oven temps, steam times, and bake times for baguettes for the last few weeks. So far my best results have been with preheating the stone and cover at 500°F. My oven takes 45 to 60 minutes to preheat to a stable temperature. Once the bread goes in and the cover is on, I shoot steam into the cover for 15 seconds and turn the temp down a bit to 485. The cover stays on for 10 minutes. I remove the cover and continue the bake a 485 for 8-10 more minutes.

Changes to steam time, oven temp, and covered/uncovered times will alter the crust density and thickness. You have to keep records and make small adjustments to suit your taste and oven.

Tom