Attempt #4, fingers crossed
This is my fourth attempt at a sourdough starter... I think it's my water (even filtered) that was the problem the last 3 times so I'm using bottled purified water with minerals added back in. If that's not the right kind to use, please let me know! Anyways, here's what
I've been doing so far:
Day one: 1oz each of bottle water and rye
Day two: 0.5 oz (or 1T) of both water and rye
Day three: it had doubled with lots of bubbles. (all my starters got to this point then failed miserably). I discarded half and then added 1oz of water and 1/2oz each of rye and bread flour (1oz of flour).
Day four: (today) no rise and no bubbles. It has a very light musty rye smell.
I am very nervous because I haven't made it past this point yet. My indoor temperatures have been around 76F during the day and 70F at night. Things get moldy easily here in humid Central Florida. All of my starters at this point have smelled like moldy yeast and were wheat based. I don't know if my rye is light, dark, or a mix. It is the Arrowhead Mills organic brand. I plan on waiting another 24 hours, but not sure if I'm on the right track.
Thoughts and comments wanted and appreciated!
76° is ok but the temp drops at night. That means that the starter will take twice as long as it would if it stayed at 76°F. So day 2 is like day one and day 4 is more like day 2. Got it? You can simply skip a day and then give a Tbs of flour. Feed every other day and just before the temps go up. Stick with it, you'll get there. :)
Mini
Thanks Mini oven, good to know. I just hope it stays 76F here for a while. Do I still need to discard half the starter every time I feed it? Or is that just when it's established?
you only need to discard when yeast has eaten thru the food. Until the yeast shows up, discarding is used to keep the starter small and under control. As long as you are adding only a tablespoon of flour every other day, it won't be jumping out of it's jar.stir and swirl it around often, keep enough water so that there is a small water separation layer on top of the forming starter culture. This layer will build with acids and help protect the developing starter culture.
One other quick thought. There are a number of starter formulas that call for the addition of an acid in small quantities – pineapple juice or lemon juice etc. As I understand it, the purpose is to discourage the development of bad creatures and allowed the good yeasts to flourish. I've tried this technique and it has been quite helpful. Since you live in Florida and you mentioned a mold issue, this might do the trick. Good luck.
I tried that one with #3, it smelled moldy on day four with weird dark circles top, go figure. I was following the recipe in the Bread Baker's Apprentice book. I was also using filtered tap water (that had chlorine apparently). I'm hoping Minioven is right about it needed an extra day or two because the temps are a little cooler this week (finally!). And by cooler, I mean it's not 85F-90F outside like it was during my previous attempts. So my fingers are crossed that this nice weather helps too!
For a starter to go quiet after it's initial bubbling up is normal. Now you wait and feed only when you see signs of activity. Many overfeed at this stage to "encourage" it but this actually has a detrimental effect. Your starter needs to become acidic but feeding too much fresh flour, at this stage, will slow this process down. So you wish to do two things....
1. Feed only when you see activity. Until then keep warm and stir.
2. Until it comes back to full strength go for a feeding of 1:0.5:0.5
When it comes back to life then go back to more regular feedings of 1:1:1
Thanks for the help. I looked today only to discover black fuzzy mold spots growing on the sides of my container. My theory is that my toddler got my container before I used it or too much exposure to the air. Time for #5 to begin and I'll start with a smaller container this time and make sure the lid is all the way on (there's a nice crack down the middle of the other one). I'll be careful not to overfeed it, especially since the temps are in the lower 70s (for now) and I'll use pineapple juice for stage one and two like the book says.
Does it matter whether or not I'm using bread flour or all purpose flour when I feed it after the second stage? I'm still going to start with rye.
going. I make one just about every month to make rye bread from scratch the old fashioned way. I do 30 g of flour and 25 g of water (you can use orange juice or pineapple juice for the liquid. Leave for a day completely covered in a warm place. Add 30 g of flout and 25 g of water, or acidic juice, stir and leave covered in a warm place. Day 3 divide in half and feed each 30 g of flour and 25 g of water stir and leave covered in a warm place. On day 4 divide 1 in half and add it to the other one and feed the other one, feed both 60 g of flour and 60 g of water leave for 24 hours but stir them every 6 hours. With the smaller one you stole from to add to the other, you can make a loaf of bread the other one is your new storage starter. Toss half of it and feed 60 g of flour and water every day for another week then you can make a NMNF starter out of it.
If you live in Florida or another high humidity area that has mold growing on everything all the time, you need to make sure your container is sterile before starting. In AZ we don't have to ever worry about mold of any kind.
If you don.'t have rye use whole wheat. Freshly ground is best.
Love the method. Thanks Dabrownman.
And a good idea about the pineapple juice for the first few feeds. This will help keep the nasty bugs away. Once your starter is viable then switch to water.
using unsweetened pineapple juice to start off. You only need one small bottle (keep it chilled during the week. Also get the starter warm the first day, back up into the high 80's and then drop the temperature for the rest of the time back to 76°F for yeast growth. Try to use a glass. I'll use plastic but my work with plastics has shown me that old plastic tend not to work so well. the lid can be a sandwich bag with a rubber band. Easy to change out if you want to. cook some water in the jar or rinse with very hot water before using. A high pH of the water could be a major problem. Find out what it is. Pineapple juice should solve that problem should it be over 8.
Bread or AP doesn't make any difference. Stick to the rye thru the whole process and only when it is yeasty, start introducing some of the wheat flour a little bit at a time over several feedings. That would be later. Stick with the rye for now.
and make sure it hasn't gone rancid.
I'm back in Austria for a few weeks and the flours I left for my SIL are still here, everything is a year old and expired. I've been tasting and testing, cooking some of the grains but end up throwing them all out. Make sure your flour is good. :)
I'm on stage 5 now and it has already doubled before the 24 hour mark, hooray! I take it that's a good sign. Hopefully I'll be able to make some sourdough soon, or at least by Christmas. I really want to try the 1,2,3 Sourdough.
@Mini: yes, my Rye flour is less than a month old and I'm using unsweetened pineapple juice without any additives (canned juice). Good to know that I was doing the right things. I used pineapple juice for 4 feedings so far. The fifth was bottled water. Keeping the pace slow has been working! I'm getting excited!
@Dabrownman: I will try this with my starter, that's a very interesting way to divide it. And yep, I'm using my sterile canning jars which have gone through the dishwasher. I tried a plastic container last time with cracked lid.... lesson learned (again and again, ha ha)
AND smelling yeasty (very important) you want the starter to peak before feeding, and with rye, it is good to wait until it is deflating before feeding. Rye tends to be rather stiff when peaked and can collapse inside while still maintaining a dome outside. So have a little fun after say an hour of peaked starter and poke it to see if it deflates, then go ahead, reduce the starter size and feed it. The discard can be used directly into a 1,2,3 or take the discard, add a little wheat/rye flour mix to build it and use that into a 1,2,3. Add a little yeast for insurance if say the starter is doubling after 12 hours.
When feeding the starter, it is now important not to watch the clock for feedings but to watch the peaking. Each time it is fed, it should reach the peak sooner. If it is peaking before 8 hours, then feed the starter more food or feed less starter. I usually don't go under 20g starter to feed. You have to go by feel and respond accordingly. It is still important to keep it warmish until it is predictable. After an 8 hour peak, wait until 10 to 12 hrs before reducing and feeding. That waiting time is crucial for rye flours to increase their bacteria count before being fed again. Use the starter at peak but when maintaining a rye starter let it get good and mature a few hours before feeding. They like it sour.
Mini
I know it's been a loooooong time. But I did make the starter, and it worked. I waited two weeks before using it. It made tasty looking bread, but it smelled so strongly of cheese! I was told by a friend that this was normal for sourdough. So I haven't made it since. My starter was all rye and I converted it slowly to regular flour per the book The Bread Baker's Apprentice and made the sourdough recipe from there. I had a shot of crumb and crust, not sure where it is at the moment. But it was fine, crispy outside and a nice inside.
I haven't had a chance to make much bread, only made a few loaves here and there. I've made a few cakes and lots of cookies. We've had our last specialty doctor's appointment for the kiddo (lots of appointments since last year). And the kiddos fine, just extra check ups about ASD (turns out it's not that, just delays and sensory issues) and all the headaches and stress that go with it. I did just pull a round loaf out of the oven though. :)
If there's a way to make sourdough without the cheese smell (we couldn't stand it) please tell me and I'll try again.
That's good news, the kids that is, not the starter. A strong cheese smell, something like Romano cheese, isn't normal for a healthy starter. It isn't unusual when making a new starter though, and that's the bad bugs. Try searching for Leuconostoc for more details.
It was the bread that smelled like cheese, but if it isn't supposed to smell like that I will just try again. Time to go buy more pineapple juice for #6. I should've posted my results a lot sooner, ha ha. No one around here makes sourdough, so I'm hoping to get to try it someday.