The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Hamelman's Sourdough semolina bread

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hamelman's Sourdough semolina bread

From Jeffrey Hamelman's, "Bread," An all sourdough semolina. The formula has 60% semolina flour. The other 40% is bread flour. Besides sourdough starter, salt and water, the only other ingredient is toasted seseme seeds (in the dough) and raw seeds on top.

This bread has less semolina character than other breads I've eaten which, I assume, had a higher percent semolina flour. Also, the others all used commercial yeast, with or without a preferment. So, Hamelman's sourdough semolina has a more open and a chewier crumb. I did not cold retard the loaves, which is an option, and the sourness was subtle.

We ate it 3 hours out of the oven with dinner. Tomorrow, we'll see what kind of french toast it makes.

Sourdough Semolina

Sourdough Semolina

 

Sourdough semolina

Sourdough semolina

Sourdough semolina crumb

Sourdough semolina crumb

David

AnnieT's picture
AnnieT

Hi David, my library got a copy of Bread for me and tonight I read about the Sourdough Semolina - and here are your beautiful loaves! Do you use a mixer? I am a bit unhappy to see that he recommends a spiral mixer for most of his recipes. Even so, I think I will have to try this bread, especially after seeing your fine example. So many breads, so little time. Congratulations on the loaves and the pictures, A.

browndog's picture
browndog

I agree with Annie, those are beautiful.

When my copy of Bread arrived I was some dismayed that it doesn't address hand-mixing at all--in fact the subject of my very first TFL post. I've found though, that the recipes work fine as long as you get the doughs properly developed, whatever method you use.

proth5's picture
proth5

Lovely bread...

Buried back on page 249 is a formula with a description of a hand mixing technique of which I have become quite fond.  It can be applied to any bread.

So many people miss it ...

Digger57's picture
Digger57

The Great use of grains is bread making. OH YA!!

Wow they look Great I hope they were as tasty as they look GREAT! Job

ElaineW's picture
ElaineW

Wow! David,

Those breads look great. They look like something I would buy. If they taste as good as they look, you have a winner.  My bet is they do taste as good as they look.

Elaine

susanfnp's picture
susanfnp

I agree withe the others, David, those are spectacular loaves. I'm sure it will make magnificent French toast!

Susanfnp

http://www.wildyeastblog.com

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Thanks to all for the nice comments. 

Answers to queries:
I use a Kitchen Aide stand mixer, then do a couple of folds before fermenting most doughs these days.

Hamelman's book seems to be aimed at commercial bakers primarily, with a nod to the home baker. I generally use his guidlines for mixing times but let the dough have the last word. This has generally meant mixing a little longer or some hand kneading after machine kneading. That's okay with me.

The breads were good to eat. The best part was the crunchy crust. I would prefer more semolina character. I want to make the Altamura all-semolina bread in Leader's "Local Breads" for comparison.

The bread made good french toast, but not as good to my taste as the Vermont Sourdough, also from Hamelman, which we also made. Your taste may be different.

David

JERSK's picture
JERSK

   I/ve made a Yeasted semolina bread from theartisan.net. It's 80% semolina, 20% Unbleached flour and 72% water. It had a lot of semolina character. If you haven't checked out that website I heartily reccomend it. It's a wealth of info on Italian breads and general flour and dough theory. Also, some Italian food recipes

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, JERSK,

Thanks for the pointer to The Artisan.I am not only aware of that site, I made the Chicken Cacciatore from there for dinner last night and am having leftovers for lunch today! What a coincidence.

I've not made any of their breads, but I will definitely check it out with your recommendation.
 

David

erina's picture
erina

Hello from a new member.

Wonderful bread you got there! 

I baked the sourdough bread for the first time, using my 10-day-ol wild yeast starter from grapes (probably not yet matured enough), and found that although the taste is excellent, the crust soften up after a while. Is it supposed to be like that? What makes crackly crust that I really love from bakery breads?

Thanks a lot. 

 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi Erina.Welcome to TFL!Crust tends to soften due to moisture moving outward from the crumb. You can get a crisper crust by leaving the bread in the oven after baking, with the oven turned off, for another 5-10 minutes. Typically, crusts on sourdough breads get "chewy" after they completely cool, but not what I would call "soft."
 David

erina's picture
erina

Thanks, David. I will try leaving my next bread  in the turned-off oven for 10 minutes.  Great advice.

-Erina- 

meryl's picture
meryl

David,
 
This is a great discussion.
 
Did you ever have a chance to make both Pane di Altamura from Leader and Semolina sourdough from Hamelman? 
 
Can you describe the differences?

  
Meryl

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Meryl.

This thread is about Hamelman's Semolina. That's the bread in the photos. I have not made the Pane di Altamura from "Local Breads," but it's been on my "to bake" list for a long time.

There is also a semolina bread in Maggie Glazer's "Artisan Breads" that is tempting.

Have you baked any of these?


David

plevee12's picture
plevee12

Patsy

plevee12's picture
plevee12

Can anyone tell me if semolina could substituted for durum flour in this recipe? Durum flour is unobtainable locally & semolina has worked OK in other breads I have made & doesn't seem to stay gritty once it is mixed.

I also notice that Michel Suas uses both semolina and durum flour in some of his recipes - what do the different forms of semolina contribute?

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Plevee.

As far as I know, the only difference between Semolina Flour and what's called "Durum Flour" is that the latter is more finely ground. Both are made from Durum wheat.

I would suppose there are some breads for which the difference matters a lot, but, as it happens, the bread I made contains coarsely ground Semolina Flour, not Durum.

Since then, I have bought some Durum Flour but have not used it yet.


David

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Even Beth Hensperger writes in her bible that both flour and farina (cream of wheat or semolina) are different but made from the endosperm of Duram wheat. I've run the gritty stuff through the blender to make flour. I've found coarse golden duram and did the same.

[img_assist|nid=8085|title=Golden semolina bread|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=488]

Bread came out like I thought it should. I'm not sure if instant semolina (the one that has been high temp steamed & dried) would work.

I think it would.

Maybe spring or winter is the difference.

So far, I can't tell. Anyone know?

Mini O

plevee12's picture
plevee12

Have you ever done a comparison bake?

Perhaps I'll whiz some semolina in the processor & try it. I've really liked the semolina breads I've made.

foolishpoolish's picture
foolishpoolish

My understanding is that semolina is milled from the endosperm of durum wheat and is often coarser than, say, wheat flour (similar to the texture of medium cornmeal) although I'm sure there are variations. It's distinctly yellow and is what gives pasta (at least the dried variety) it's colour. 

I presume durum flour could refer to any flour that come from durum wheat. Although I'd think that durum 'white' flour would be very similar to semolina with the only difference being particle size.  That said, I don't think I've ever seen durum flour for sale here so I couldn't be sure. 

To further confuse things, I've seen something called 'whole semolina' for sale here in the UK which is supposed to be milled whole durum grain. It looks like normal semolina with brown flecks in it.  

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Terminology regarding durum wheat products appears to be unstandardized, as is so much flour terminology in general. To add information (I cannot say, "to clarify."), I suggest you consult the collection of definitional discussions on "The Artisan" web site. The link to that discussions is:

http://www.theartisan.net/sicilian_bread.htm


David

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

The revival of this discussion has helped me overcome my procrastination. (This is no mean feat, speaking as an 11th grade black belt procrastinator.)

I have a poolish for Tom Cat's Semolina Filone (via Glazer's "Artisan Breads") on the counter, alongside a bowl with the required durum/KA AP flour mix.

I just have to figure out the schedule for tomorrow so it doesn't need to go into the oven at the exact same time as the 5-grain levain boules from Hamelman's "Bread."


David

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/8114/tom-cat039s-semolina-filone-maggie-glezer039s-quotartisan-breadsquot

This was the first bread I made with real "durum flour." The bread has a very different texture from the breads I've made with "semolina flour," but this was also a different formula.


David

calliekoch's picture
calliekoch

Those loaves look amazing, David.


I baked these yesterday and was disappointed with the results. It looks like mine were overproofed as they didn't brown very much and had poor oven spring.


Hamelman's formula says you can proof for 2 hrs at room temp or do longer fermentations for 8 or up to 18 hours at 50 or 42 degrees. I did a longer fermentation for my loaves at about 45 degrees for 10 hours and was wondering which method you used. I would really love to try this bread again and get some better results.


Callie

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Callie.


I've only made this bread once and, I believe, I did not retard it. So it was probably fermented for about 2 hours.


The sourdough semolina bread I prefer is my transformation of the Italian Bread in BBA to one made with a natural biga and with the substitution of about 20% durum flour for an equal weight of bread flour. See this blog entry: Today's breads - SF SD from AB&F and Sourdough Italian with Durum Flour. The blog entry Sourdough Italian Bread and Sandwich Rolls has the recipe (minus the durum substitution). 


David

aliceq's picture
aliceq

May i know if the dough made from Semolina flour is very sticky? i tried to make bread today using semolina flour. i find that it rise very fast but darn too sticky..

anyone can advice?