Stickiest dough you've ever seen.
Hi everyone,
I'm learning how to bake sourdough bread and I find it very interesting, however I'm starting to lose my patience with it...
Even after finding many people with my same problem and some nice answers, nothing really works. I have watched many youtube tutorials on how to handle and shape sticky dough but believe me, I have never seen something as sticky as what I'm dealing with right here.
My dough will stick to absolutely everything, even the brand new dough scraper that I bought is useless against this. I have tried everything: oil, flour, cold water, a spatula, a scraper... NOTHING works.
I'm doing just as many youtube videos and tutorials suggest and they never end up with such an sticky monster as I do. It's driving me crazy.
I really appreciate your help,
This is a short clip of me tryng to fold my dough: https://www.dropbox.com/s/h12qkh14uyrd0ev/video-1468336333.mp4?dl=0
Thanks!
That is very sticky dough. Did you weigh the ingredients? What were your measurements? I suspect there is an error in the water to flour ratio.
Fird
I eyeballed everything since I don't have a scale but I did it carefully and really trying not to put too much flour on it. Strangely enough, it gets even stickier as I add more flour. It's just as sticky even if I keep my hands and the scraper wet all the time.
Is that common with wholewheat flour?
Buy a set of scales. I think you have too much water ( or milk). Until then: a cup of sifted flour weighs about 4 1/4 oz. (120 g), a cup of water weighs 8 1/3 oz (236 g), a cup of milk weighs 8.5 oz (242 g).
You can also try an alternative technique for kneading the dough: .Lightly sprinkle the dough with flour and also your hands, then work the dough as you have. Keep sprinkling the dough with flour as you work it. Don't try for more than 70 - 72 % hydration (bakers percent based on weight of flour).
Whole wheat flour usually requires more water than does white flour.
I wish you the best, and I am happy to help.
Ford
Thank you so much for the info on whole wheat and the proportions Ford, I'll follow your advice.
Cheers!
F
What recipe and what specific ingredients are you using? How much starter to how much flour and water? What kind of starter, and how liquid is it?
Simply saying you eyeballed everything doesn't do much to help people to help you.
I'm trying to follow this recipe. The problem is that I don't have a scale so I tried to eyeball the consistency. I'm definitely doing something wrong here but my question is: Is this a common problem for overhydrated doughs?
There are a lot of people complaining about unmanageable sticky doughs, so does my dough looks normal or does it look like there's something wrong with it?
Thanks
Your video looks about that wet. The problem is in your handling. I could explain it to you over and over but you will not get it until you do it yourself and make some mistakes and endure some frustration. You need to use quick movements and move with the dough and not fight the dough. Let the dough stick to itself. Don't put so much skin on the dough for long enough for it to stick badly. Don't put too much pressure on the dough to let it stick to your skin. It takes practice.
You say you're learning to bake SD. If you're still early on your personal learning curve, the recipe you've chosen isn't one I'd suggest for a (near-)beginner. In general, the higher the proportion of WW and the higher the hydration, the more skill it will require. Fwiw, unless they have a lot of experience with yeasted breads, I usually suggest people start their SD journeys with white flour at no more than 65-70% since it's better IMO to err on the easy side.
And I'll second the suggestion to get a scale. In my neck of the woods (Toronto area), digitals that weigh up to a couple of kg at +/- 1 gm can be found on sale for as little as $10, so here at least, it's not a big investment.
Hah! I love your barely-controlled frustration in the video! :)
Yup, I would say this dough is waaaaay too wet. I think you are getting the hang of the techniques though. Just try it with more flour / less water. Mix water and flour (and your starter, if you want; I'm assuming you've got a nice active starter going) until it's a shaggy, sticky mass, then let it sit for at least half an hour (could be longer if you're using a lot of whole wheat flour (incidentally, your video looks a lot more like white flour than whole wheat, but might just be the video)). Then add the salt and work the dough for a bit (slap and fold, as in your video, or even mixing with a mixer) until it starts to look smoother and stretchier. Then you can do the stretch and folds every half hour for a couple of hours, and carry on. If you don't have a set of scales then by all means continue to eyeball it, but make a note of how much flour and how much water (by cups if that's all you have) results in a stretchy, springy dough you can work with so you can do it again next time!
Haha I know! I was quite frustrated by then...
Thank you so much for the advice, I'll keep that in mind for my next loaf. I wonder if it all depends on the original mix... I tried to add some flour after getting tired of fighting the sticky dough and it got even stickier... Is that because I'm just adding more flour after the bulk fermentation?
It doesn't look too wet to me. It depends on your process. I loaf proof in bannetons in the fridge overnight, so for a ww bread I would make it wet like yours since it firms up in the cold. I also don't bother with stretch and folds, but if I did, I would wet my hand first. Your frustration is due to lack of experience/skill (I don't mean to be offensive, it's just true) with a wet dough. You are touching the dough too long with too much pressure and allowing it to stick. It will always stick to your hand to some degree but with practice you will be able to handle it just fine.
I guess many use a stiffer dough. I do not.
Thanks a lot for your advice.
I'll definitely keep practicing the technique. I'm just doing what I see on the internet but like you said, I'm maybe touching the dough with too much pressure or for too long.
I wonder if it's normal for the dough to stick so much to the table and scraper. This video I found shows you how to handle a 95% hydration dough and the thing is not sticking to anything at all. Could you please tell me what you think about that? Thanks again!
In the video his dough is already well developed and shaped. While it looks like he is grabbing the dough the same as you are, in reality he is not touching it or moving it all that much. What I mean is that he is using his hands and fingers to hold the dough while at the same time not using any fine motor movement in his fingers (i.e. he is not using his fingertips or individual fingers to do anything complex). He is moving the dough in approximately one direction on each movement: up. These are subtleties that I notice because I try to explain to my employees and trainees how to not get everything to stick to themselves. We do it side by side with the same dough and what they see me do is not what I am doing and therefore not what they themselves are doing.
From your perspective, you are doing what you see experienced hands doing. You are mistaken. You are putting too much pressure and not enough flour/water to keep the dough from sticking to the point where it obstructs what you are trying to do. There are subtle movements and lack of movements that you are missing and make all the difference. I do not know how to portray this remotely; I have enough trouble in my own bakery when I am right next to my people. Practice, practice, you are not far away.
Hi, FranciscoA!
I'm new, too. A month and a half's worth of aggravation but I just figured it out and made my first decent loaf after making brick after brick.
May I suggest you start with King Arthur Flour's Classic Sourdough?:
http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2012/06/14/classic-sourdough-bread-time-steps-in-for-added-yeast/
This is what you need to start off. Easy-peasy, lemon-squeezy. You'll still make bricks but they'll be YOUR bricks and you'll learn how to do the thing. Do five or six of 'em spaced out over a couple of days each and you'll be golden.
Have fun!
Murph
PS: Learn dabrownman's No Muss, No Fuss sourdough starter while you're screwing around...
Most don't consider how the introduction of a sourdough starter chemically changes the structure of gluten. While you're dough is indeed wet, it looks to me as if the gluten is subject to an excess of the chemical changes. This is why it is sticking and actually tearing. No matter how wet a dough; within a consistent limit the dough should stick to itself more than something else.
Something is wrong in the formulation and or fermentation. This typically occurs if the starter is over or less rarely, and more so with firm starters under fermented. Or the starter is used at too high a percentage in the final dough.
My advice would be to keep your starter young. Give it a series of short refreshments before use. Don't use it a above 30%.
"...stick to itself more than anything else" Also, how the acid in sourdough changes the gluten structure.
I'm still new but these points were "aha!" moments for me. I keep searching for answers to "how to know when" but I've found that that answer doesn't exist except through practice.
Best advice: save up $20-$25 bucks to invest in unbleached flour, salt, and bottled water and resign yourself to making five to 10 miserable loaves of inedible bricks using sickly starter on a timeline not of your choosing and tell us how much you enjoy baking bread. If you can get past that, you're golden! Easy, right?
Have fun!
Murph
I'm very new to this also.
What worked better for me was the "french kneading". It uses no flour or water, you just go sticky, but then the "magic" happens!... It just works.
It's a wonderful thing when you transform that gooey stuff into a soft and smooth dough.
In my little experience, what I can tell you is: keep going. Don't give up. Just believe it will work, and it will. Last batch I made I used this method in a 80% hydration dough (60%WW + 40%BF). My first attempt with such a wet beast. And, as aways, I thought it would not work. The stuff looked like a porridge, I had to keep scraping it so it wont't fall from my not so levelled countertop. But I kept going and the stuff eventually ( I lost track, but I believe it'was around an hour with some intervals) it worked, developing in a nice smooth dough. And later a very nice, aerated loaf :)
So keep going, it will work. Repeat that to your self. ;)
Another thing I noticed is that there is quite a development while the dough is resting, so if you get tired, take a little break, and the dough will be nicer when get back to it.
This is Richard Bertinet's video where I first learned about this technique. It is cool because he shows the beginning of the process, when the dough is a mess. Also he goes slow in speeding the real time. It's a great video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbBO4XyL3iM
In this one she repeats in details the technique. Also she explains a "twist" he does not. I liked the twist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dUZ0O-Wv0Q
He is doing the same thing again. Also nice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXV8mayG3W0
I had the same problem. A frustrating sticky mess every time, looking like nothing I had seen on youtube. And then I added a 30-60 minute wait (or autolyse) after adding the flour to the sponge/water but BEFORE adding the salt. Oh my word, what a difference!! Try that. And try the french kneading that is mentioned in the post above. I've found that I don't need any flour on the bench now when kneading that way and it really only takes 10-15 minutes after the autolyse. And I'm a newbie too. Baked my first loaf just a few months ago back in March. :)
Seriously, thanks a lot for all the ideas and the insight. I baked another brick yesterday but at least now I know what I'm doing wrong.
It's great to have experienced bakers here for some useful feedback. Thanks again!