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unrisen pizza dough used as starter for new dough

ChrisMH's picture
ChrisMH

unrisen pizza dough used as starter for new dough

Yesterday, I made Roberta's pizza dough recipe from NYT. ALL ingredients were new and the water temperature I used was under 110 degrees. I did NOT proof the yeast prior to using it(I usually do). Recipe called for AP and 00 flour. This is the first time I used 00 flour. Followed the exactly, portioned it out and is in the fridge to cold ferment---it has NOT risen. I took one piece out and it seems to have changed slightly on the counter.

I'd like to use a fourth of the cold dough or the piece I took out.

Should it come to room temp-how long? Or, can it be used cold to add to a new batch using a new full recipe? I don't want to waste the ingredients by throwing them out. Hoping to restart the mix by beginning a new recipe. I'll freeze the two pieces that are in the refrigerator.

Any suggestions? I'd like to use the dough today if possible.

 

Thanks,

Chris

suave's picture
suave

To use old dough as a leaving it needs to be fully risen.  I even prefer to let it collapse.

ChrisMH's picture
ChrisMH

Thank you for responding.

So, to use the dough in a new batch I can use at room temperature once it has risen some or collapsed. I used one fourth of the dough that was in the refrigerator for 24 hours by itself, not making a new batch. It had good flavor but was slightly tough. Tomorrow, I might try using another piece that's still fermenting , bringing to room temperature and adding it to a fresh recipe. I'm hoping it won't be quite as tough. Then, I'll freeze the other 2 balls to use as a starter next time. 

Approximately, how starter much starter or dough should be used? The original recipe was for the actual pizza dough recipe and not a starter. Since it didn't rise as I'd hoped, I just don't want to waste the ingredients used.

Would appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks, Suave

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Anytime you want to speed up a dough (here a pizza dough) spread it out, mist with a little water and sprinkle on a little instant  yeast, making a yeast paste.  Then roll up the dough and knead in the yeast.  Let it rise in a warmer spot than the refrigerator and ev. bake as pizza or bread.  

By the way... what kind of yeast was in the recipe that you normally proof?  If it is the coated kind, it needs warm water to dissolve the outer protective shell around the yeast.  It will activate cold but it takes a considerable amount of time, that might be what is slowing up the pizza dough.  Nothing wrong with a long cold retardation in the fridge and it sounds like the dough would keep for several days without a problem.  Like I said, if you want to, you can add instant yeast and get it rising quickly.   Within an hour if the dough is a comfortable room temperature.

ChrisMH's picture
ChrisMH

Hi,

The original recipe for the pizza dough is found here:  cooking.nytimes.com/guides/1-how-to-make-pizza. It can be used after room temperature rising or slow rise/ferment. The dough didn't rise in the refrigerator but did slight when taken out. So, I was concerned about the final result. I've reused dough before with good results. I usually add more flour etc and it works fine. But, I've never made a paste of yeast only.  I'll definitely give it a try. I used new dry active, not instant in the original recipe and have both. Also, have some cake yeast, too. I've been baking for 55 years and grew up using cake yeast, mostly, with fantastic results. 

I'll definitely try the instant yeast tomorrow with one of the three pieces and will freeze the other two, maybe cutting them smaller to use as starters.

Thanks so much for the suggestion of water sprayed on the surface and yeast to make a paste. That's a great idea!!!

 

 

ChrisMH's picture
ChrisMH

Hi Mini Oven,

Friday, I made a multigrain bread dough for hamburger rolls. I saved a small amount, portioned to several pieces and refrigerated. This morning I took a piece out and froze the rest. Trying the yeast paste method now. In the past I've only rejuvenated dough that I felt wasn't responding as I'd hoped at the very time I was making a specific recipe. Curious as to how it'll turn out. Surely, It will work well in a wheat loaf or two. Smells so fruity and aromatic already.

I'll post about final results.

Thanks for the previous feedback!!!

Chris

 

ChrisMH's picture
ChrisMH

Bread came out fantastic. Rose beautifully. Was an all wheat sandwich loaf. Had great pull, tight crumb. Light and fluffy. To the other ingredients, I added an egg and vital wheat gluten in addition to the piece of dough using the instant yeast paste. The multigrain starter reacted quickly. Added  more of that strong yeast that is so appealing when baking bread. 

Thanks!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

you found a solution that works for you.  :)  That's what it's all about.  

I'd like to put our hubbies together in hope they rub off on each other.  Mine could use a few less carbs. :)  

yozzause's picture
yozzause

The way to use up a failed dough is  as in a pate fermente whereby a portion of old dough is added to  a new dough and will save wastage. This was done regularly in commercial bakeries if there was a slip up and an ingredient was omitted, the dough could be sat aside and pieces incorporated into further mixes.. With the Pate fermente  a piece of perfectly good dough is held back and added to another  dough for beneficial aspects such as flavour and softness of crumb. Just recently during a professional development day with chefs at the training institute I was working at salt was omitted from the mix, once discovered that dough was divided up into take away container sized pieces and put into the freezer to be thawed out a day ahead of required use and incorporated into many doughs for the restaurants dinner rolls, it ended up being an excellent demonstration of what could be done to save the day and money.

Kind regards Derek

ChrisMH's picture
ChrisMH

Thanks, Derek! 

Today, I'll try the instant-rapid rise yeast/water paste method as Mini Oven suggested. The original recipe has been in the refrigerator for just under 48 hours. 

I've frozen the balance of the dough, portioned to about 1 1/4 cup each and will use  it as you recommended.  I've re-used old dough in the past but not well after made or frozen, only just at the same time I've made a recipe for bread or rolls and I thought it hadn't reacted or felt the way it should have-always with good results. Never for pizza. I use a sponge or biga for baguettes, usually left at room temperature for 12 to 24 hours, no longer. I will research more about pate fermente. Does the amount of old dough matter when added to a new recipe?

Growing up we always transformed everything into something else to be thrifty and it flowed over to the kitchen. Experimenting with food, be it leftovers, mistakes or fresh has always challenged me. 

Thank you for the information. I'm looking forward to trying this and learning more about fermentation.

Chris

yozzause's picture
yozzause

Hi Chris  if using frozen dough make sure its allowed to thaw out to room temperature prior to use.

 I would tend to keep the additions to around 10% of the flour weight this shouldn't put undue pressure on the main dough that will be carrying the addition. sometimes if you know what the problem dough was missing eg salt then a small adjustment can be made whether it be to much or none in the failed dough.

I think when you check on Pate Fermente the dough is made without salt for inclusion into a later dough. good luck we look forward to hearing how you fare. regards Derek 

ChrisMH's picture
ChrisMH

Hi Derek,

Sorry so long in responding. I wasn't able to use the dough as I'd hoped as I was very busy. I did freeze the dough, but in larger pieces than you suggested, certainly larger than the 10 % you felt was adequate. I read your post after doing so. It was getting late and I got very impatient having to finalize everything I'd begun that weekend to prepare for a long, late work week.

Looks like I'll be making LARGE batches to share with others so the frozen piece doesn't tax the new mixture.

I'm tempted to begin today,,,EXCEPT, my husband has put himself on a low carb diet!!!! HMMM...Guess I should respect this...Darn!  

Thanks so much, Derek, for your advise. I'll let you know when I use some of the frozen dough. I've yet to research Pate Fermente but will do so when I have time to delve into it.

Have a fantastic weekend,

Chris