June 16, 2016 - 10:45am
Rye Bread Help
I'm trying to make a 100% rye cob with no sourdough.
Firstly what percentage hydration is best for rye? I tried a recipe that was 500g flour and 350 water and it was too dry.
Secondly, should I knead it a d how long for ?
Thirdly, do I after kneading put it into a well oiled bowl or straight into my proving basket? Does it need a bulk fermentation?
And lastly how do I tell if it us ready? And how long for the bulk fermentation and then the proving.
With other types if flour I can put 2 wet fingers into the dough to check, but with rye I wouldn't dare to.
And how do you get a good oven spring?
Thank you for your help
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of making a recipe? It's been 4 hours since your post, so I was wondering what kind of time frame are we looking at now.
Rye needs some kind of acid in the dough to stretch and trap yeast gas bubbles. (vinegar, buttermilk, yoghurt, pickle juice, at best, sourdough culture) About 83 to 85% hydration is normal for a 100% rye dough. It will not rise much, usually increase about 1/3 if all goes well. The dough is often referred to as a "paste" and properly hydrated the dough reminds me more of drop cookie dough or hamburger meat with the colour of cement.
If you have mixed up a dough you have a time limit.
Thank you for your reply.
I didn't know about rye needing an acid, I was using
500g rye
30 black treacle
10 yeast
10 salt
The recipe said 350 water but i went to 400 as I did 350 last time but it was too dry and the recipe wanted after kneading for it too rest for 4 hours in a well oiled bowl then upto 3 hours in a prooving basket. I did this the first time and my bread was dry and barely rose. This time I skipped the oiled bowl and put it straight into my basket for 2 1/2 hours (or until it had doubled) and it has worked.
I'm going to try adding more water next time and with a proofing basket are you meant to cover it with oiled cling film? As the dough drying out can be an issue and perhaps stop it rising due to a film on the top being created.
I was using a Paul Hollywood receipe from his book how to bake but I have found his recipes to be a bit of the mark.
will bring it up to 80%
I forgot, one tablespoon of lemon juice is often used with rye when using baker's yeast. That might help a bit.
Looking at the recipe... standard recipe for a wheat bread btw... 10g yeast is too much and I would cut it in half. A slower rise will get you more volume as a fast rise causes the delicate matrix to tear.
You can cover a rye loaf with oiled cling film or pat it with oily hands or sprinkle the top with rye flour... the flour will show you cracks as it rises and hold in hydration. or Pop the whole thing inside a large bag so you can watch it. Don't let it rise more than a third... i usually fill a pan or form 2/3 and let it rise just to the rim, do shape the dough with a wet spatula if you like it domed otherwise the loaf will be pretty much as flat as it was going into the oven.
If you type in 100% rye into the search machine here, you will find lots of recipes and tips.
will make 85% hydration just add the lemon juice to the water as you are weighing or measuring.
If you have any left over pieces of bread from the last loaf, crumble a slice or two (might want to freeze it while eating up the loaf) and toss into the next rye dough, if it's a dry piece of bread, wet it a little before adding so it can fall apart easier. This will add flavour and help the new dough structure.
I've just read this on Wikipedia:
While rye and wheat are genetically similar enough to interbreed (resulting in hybrids known as triticale), their biochemistries differ enough that they affect the breadmaking process. The key issue is differing amylases, the enzyme which breaks starch down intosugar. While wheat amylases are generally not heat-stable and thus do not affect stronger wheat gluten that gives wheat bread its structure, rye amylase remains active at substantially higher temperatures. Since rye gluten (secalin) is not particularly strong, rye dough structure is based on complex polysaccharides, including rye starch and pentosans. As a result, amylases in rye flour can break down dough structure, inhibiting it from rising.[3]
There are two common solutions: The traditional manner, developed where obtaining wheat was traditionally impractical because of marginal growing conditions or supply difficulties, uses dough acidification to impede the function of rye amylases. Lowering dough pH, however, compromises the use of relatively acid-intolerant Saccharomyces cerevisiae-based "baker's yeast". Instead, addition of naturally acidic Lactobacillus"sourdough" cultures lowers bread pH, provides an acid-tolerant yeast strain, and helps gelatinize starches in the dough matrix. The byproduct of this approach is lighter breads.
go by. Good so.
Yep, you sort of dove head first into Rye. A great way to learn fast.
Don't give up and if you want to get started making a rye sourdough culture, by all means give it a try. Start out with a Tablespoon of rye flour and a Tablespoon of unsweetened pineapple juice. Over the week, once a day, add another tablespoon of each keeping the flour soft and wet like a runny toothpaste. loosely cover with plastic film and a rubber band. Nothing will happen for a few days then it will start to bubble. Just keep adding juice and flour well... here's a link..
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2
You can also click on my photo and go to my blog page, pick out some posts that I've bookmarked for more reading on rye. Soon you won't be able to put the computer down. There are a lot of us here who like to bake with rye and can't get enough of it. :)
If you permit me to toot my own horn... here is a six year old journey of my fun with 100% rye...
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/15736/mini039s-favorite-rye-ratio
If the loaf you already baked seems too dry to eat, Try this trick... peel an apple and place on a saucer in the bread bin or bag with the loaf overnight.
Or float a slice of rye on some onion soup and melt a big slice of cheese on it in the oven until bubbly.
MiniOven is definitely a rye expert here. When you search for "RYE" you will find she is on most of the posts. Diving into rye first is adventurous because it really has unique handling requirements, as you are finding, but is most delicious. I just jumped in to add a few observations for you as a beginner breadmaker.
First, as I said, rye has its own requirements so when you move on to other flours, just know that they will have totally different handling requirements and a few different ingredients to bake a proper loaf for that particular flour you will be using. Whole wheat, AP,spelt, etc are all unique. Look at each one as a different learning curve.
Second, bake your loaf over and over until you get it how you want. Document and change only one thing per bake so you learn how the ingredients and techniques affect the dough and the final loaf.
Third, remember the room temperature will affect the dough,also, as the seasons change and your kitchen becomes warmer or cooler,more or less humid.
Have delicious fun!
You have both been wonderful and so helpful.