The Fresh Loaf

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Hello everyone, thank you for already helping me

levinsamuel's picture
levinsamuel

Hello everyone, thank you for already helping me

I'm pretty new to making bread; my qualifications to this point are, in their entirety, reading The Bread Baker's Apprentice and one month of varying degrees of failure. I would like to say that this forum has already helped me out in a few ways. I have been practicing a lot with high-hydration doughs because, well, they have been hard to make and I took up bread making in the first place partially for the challenge. I've made some sourdough and some with commercial yeast, mostly all with white flour (my two attempts at whole wheat have not gone well, ha), and I've had problems both with poor oven spring and pale color. This forum gave me a few hints: to try the autolyse method, to look for signs of over-proofing, to check my gluten ratio, and so far all of that has been immensely helpful.

I'll try to attach a picture of the sourdough boule I just pulled out of the oven.

Unfortunately, I've been a little lax with measuring, but the basic recipe I used was:

9 oz. white flour

6 oz. water

4 oz. 100% hydration (in theory lol) starter

So, if I'm doing the math right, that's about 73% H2O, which is a number I arrived at somewhat arbitrarily. I'm planning to bring it into the office tomorrow intact so I won't have a picture of the crumb yet. I certainly don't think I've done this perfectly by any means (and really I want to learn so all criticism is welcome) but I figured I'd say thanks and also hi.

Note: The side is a little ribbed because I think I am proofing on a cloth that is too thick and strong, so that the dough actually proofs around folds in the cloth. I need to find a better cloth for that, or just a less hacked-up banneton.

Ru007's picture
Ru007

How long do you proof the dough for? You probably aren't getting the spring you want if you're proofing for too long?

It could also be because of the way you steam your oven. If there isn't enough steam the crust may be setting before the loaf is done expanding (i think that's the theory).

As for the pale colour, how long are you baking the loaf for? It could just need another few minutes in the oven.

Happy baking!

Ru

levinsamuel's picture
levinsamuel

Thanks!

I may have been unclear, but the pictured one is the result of making some corrections after the previous one came out flat and pale. I did actually try to leave the last one in the oven longer, but I have seen the golden brown color before and I could tell it wasn't happening. I ended up leaving the last one in way too long and it became really crusty and dry and the color never really improved. The pictured one got golden brown in a little over half the time that I baked the previous one. I credit that to not using too much starter, probably a bit to the autolyse, and cutting the fermentation time.

As for proofing, I shaped the dough and put it in the fridge, took it out about 8 hours later, left it out to warm up for about an hour since it didn't seem to have expanded much over that time. However, seeing this result, it is pretty clear to me that my previous notion of when a loaf is fully proofed was wrong. I would wait to put the thing in the oven until it was so inflated that it looked like simply poking it would deflate it. It sounds I should put it in the oven before that point and let some of that happen while it bakes.

I think I fermented this one about 4 hours at room temp, and then proofed it about 8 hours in the fridge. This one tasted good but not incredible, so I think I need to figure out how to better balance the fermentation necessary for flavor and over-fermenting all the sugar and structure away.

I try to do Peter Reinhart's steaming method, so I pour some hot water in the steam pan, and then every 30 seconds after that I spray the walls and door, 3 times.

Ru007's picture
Ru007

loaves, I do a really long autolyse (overnight in the fridge), i'm not saying this is necessary, but its just what has worked for me.  I stretch and fold for about 2 two hours (one set every 20-30mins), and then i bulk ferment for about 2 hours (depending on the temperature). I just let the dough expand to almost double the size. Then i pre shape, shape and put it in fridge for 16-24 hours (the longer the better for flavour, i think).  

To be honest, it doesn't usually seem like much has happened in fridge, but i bake straight from the fridge and the oven spring is great.

You could try holding your scoring blade at a more shallow angle, from what i've read (an my limited experience), this encourages expansion upward.

The steaming technique you're using might becausing you to lose some heat in the oven as you open and shut the door. I don't bother spraying the walls of the oven, but there might be some benefit to this i'm not seeing.

Happy baking!

levinsamuel's picture
levinsamuel

Huh, I did a similar start as you, stretch and fold for about 2 hours and then rest for another 2 hours, but I don't think it nearly doubled in size as I did that. How much starter do you use, and what kind? I made this one directly from the barm I have in the fridge, about 100% hydration, probably around 2 days since I last fed it.

I think the crumb turned out ok so I wasn't too worried that it didn't seem to expand much during primary fermentation.

Yes, I am not very comfortable scoring so I have stuck to perpendicular cuts so far, but I am going to try some shallower angles pretty soon.

Ru007's picture
Ru007

I use a rye starter i keep in fridge at about 70% hydration. I only feed my starter once every 6 - 8 weeks.

Have a look at this link:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/40918/no-muss-no-fuss-starter

I usually do my levain builds in three stages starting with only about 6-10g of starter, but my prefermented flour is usually about 18 -20%.  I add the levain to the dough when its really active after the third feeding.

Scoring at a shallow angle isn't a must, but i just give it a go. That's what i did, i'm still far from perfect but i try to practice as often as i can. Check out this link:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/31887/scoring-bread-updated-tutorial

Happy baking!

Arjon's picture
Arjon

you can bake it a bit longer as suggested, and/or at a higher temperature. To some degree, it's a matter of trying different combinations in order to learn how you get the result you want from your particular oven. 

I'd guess from the degree to which your score opened that your oven spring may have been okay (not super but not bad either), just less than you expected / hoped for. 

levinsamuel's picture
levinsamuel

Thanks, sorry I was misleading but I'm relatively happy with the pictured one. I'm not even going to post pictures of the one that was flat and pale. I think I disposed of all evidence of its existence.

estherc's picture
estherc

I think perhaps a few more minutes in the oven would make it even lovelier. Looks like a nice high loaf. 

levinsamuel's picture
levinsamuel

I think it looks darker to me in the oven than it ends up being when I pull it out. I will try to resist my fear of overcooking and see if I can get an even deeper color.