The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

For a change of pace:

Elagins's picture
Elagins

For a change of pace:

French rye from the Auvergne/Pain Seigle d'Auvergne. http://wp.me/p7arG7-8l

Ru007's picture
Ru007

Thanks for the info about "French rye". I didn't know that was a thing!

I noticed you baked until the internal temp was 198F which is lower than what I've heard is ideal for a high rye I.e. about 210F. How do you determine what temp you're aiming for? 

Ru

Elagins's picture
Elagins

Baking as a chemical process really finishes at about 194F/90C, which is when the starches in the dough fully gelatinize (gluten sets at around 160F/71C). Anything beyond that just thickens and hardens the crust, which reflects a preference among European bakers and bread eaters for thicker-crusted breads.

What's more important in ryes is once the right internal temperature is reached and baking is complete, to let the breads rest for at least 12 hours before slicing (and yes, I know it can be difficult -- believe me). The additional time allows the structure of the bread to integrate (reducing/eliminating the gumminess of rye breads that are cut too soon), and allowing the moisture and flavoring agents to fully disperse through the crumb.

Thanks for your question,

Stan Ginsberg

Ru007's picture
Ru007

Its good to know theres a range of temperatures thatll do the job, but I do prefer thicker crusts.

And I know that 12 hour wait can be long. Which brings me to my next question (please bear with me).

I baked a 70% rye at about 70% hydration and I waited almost 24 hours before slicing and it was great. Then I made a 70% rye at 109% hydration and waited about the same amount of time before slicing but i think I sliced too soon. The crumb wasn't gummy but it was a little bit moister than I expected, even if I consider how wet the dough was. Still tasted good though.

So my question is, is it the % rye that tells you how long to wait or the hydration or something else? 

Also, once I've sliced is it game over? Or will the crumb continue to set and develop flavour?

Here's a link to my post if you'd like to see what it looked like.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/45632/something-bit-different

Ru

Elagins's picture
Elagins

Without knowing the specifics, any of the factors you mention -- hydration, % rye, baking time & temp, plus the grind of the rye (e.g., coarse rye meal vs. rye flour) -- influence the resting time. For higher rye% and higher hydration breads, I like to rest for 2-3 days; lighter breads don't need quite so much time. And no, the game's not over: the crumb keeps developing. I find that my high % ryes taste best 4-5 days after I take them out of the oven.

Ru007's picture
Ru007

I will try resting my high hydration loaves a bit longer and see what happens! 

Thanks again 

Ru

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

to pack away a couple of slices in the freezer, when the bread is several days old (cutting and freezing before moisture  balances is not recommended) for inclusion (crumble) into the next rye loaf starter build for finer aroma and flavour. 

I go by the harder the crust and the higher the whole grain, the longer the rest.  Tight in lightly oiled plastic wrap or foil seems to work the best for me.  :)

Ru007's picture
Ru007

I'm not sure i'm reading this right, do you mean i can crumble a slice of my rye loaf into the starter for my next loaf?

I've never heard of doing this, but i'm willing to try anything!

What effect would this have on the rest of my recipe? Would i need to adjust the amount of water or the flour etc? 

Thanks Mini :)

Ru

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Ru, yes, you understand correctly.  If you think the day old bread is too dry, you can run the slice of bread under the tap and pick up a tablespoon or so of water, the moisture that baked out of the bread when baked.  

I suppose the finished loaf has one extra slice of bread in it for you.  :)     

Mini

tptak's picture
tptak

Yet another impressive bake, as I can see.

You might be interested in a three stage starter rye bread from J Hamelman's bread that I made recently - I did however alter it a bit and replace the whole bread flour with light rye. Turned out really good, gone quickly.

Elagins's picture
Elagins

I've seen that recipe and, like all of his formulas, it's sound and well-presented. Three-stage sponges are really interesting from a process chemistry perspective, into which I delve pretty deeply in The Rye Baker ('fraid you'll have to wait until September for that one, though).

I've played with several three-stage breads and they're all very interesting. There's one in particular, another French rye from Provence that I'll eventually post on the blog. In the meantime, keep baking and exploring: it's a big world out there!

Stan Ginsberg

rudirednose's picture
rudirednose

Half the recipe, one loaf, on the baking-steel with convection mode.

 

Verry fine recipe! Thank you!

Next time I will bake it a littel bit hotter!

Smells gourgeouse!

rudi

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

you are right , most folks don't think of rye breads coming from there - especially high % whole grain ones.  There are all kinds of different recipes for them but what I find really odd is the very high baking temperatures for the first 45 minutes of baking.  I don't think the Germans or Scandinavians would normally bake rye that high.  This one looks good Stan.

Happy baking