Tartine Country Loaf Questions
Hello. I am new to bread making, and this is my first attempt to bake Tartine's Country Loaf. As for the first time, I'm pretty happy that it is still edible, but it is certainly not as good as I've hoped. The crust is slightly thick and the crumb is not as open. Any suggestion would be appreciated!
I can feel the dough was quite tense when being shaped, and when I uncover the bread during baking, I see no steam and the surface of the loaf was dry and not moist and shiny. I suspect that there are a few problems during the whole process.
First, mixing the flour with water too long/vigorously cause the dough to tense up.
Then, I have noticed that the dough did not spread out much during bench rest. Could it be some problems with dividing and shaping the dough? Or because I use marble counter top for resting the dough, and the marble was too cold for the dough? Should I simply let it resting longer or use other material for shaping & resting?
Also I use the oven with a pot of boiling water method for bulk fermentation at 82-85F, but I took it out sooner and left it at 72F for the last hour. Would that cause problems? (I was worried that the oven would be too hot while I cook dinner on the stove.)
Finally, I only cover the shaped loaves with dry towel during retarding. Should I use damp towels instead?
Thanks in advance!
Well personally, I think the loaf looks wonderful! I'm very impressed that a new baker has done so well with a Tartine recipe (which are quite tricky to deal with). I'm surprised at a couple of things though:
Nice loaf, nonetheless!
Thank you for the comment Lazy Loafer!
It was 75% hydration, maybe the flour I have needs more water? They are stone ground local wheat flour, all purpose flour. Would it be better if I use bread flour?Should I add more water next time? Maybe 80% hydration? Will that help to create a more open crumb?
After mixing, it went through autolyse, so I did let it relax for about 30 minutes. Maybe I incorrectly measured the water... Next time, I will put the shaped loaves into plastic bags for retarding.
You've made a fantastic bread, especially considering it's your first time baking a Tartine loaf. It has a nice shape, good cuts, and an open crumb. Far better than anything I ever achieved when I first started baking. You've done well.
If you're looking for a more open crumb, I'd say your loaf probably could've proofed for a bit longer. You have nice openness, but in between the bigger holes it looks a bit more dense (though admittedly, it's hard to tell in those pictures). If that's the case, it was probably just a bit young when it went into the oven.
Instead of rushing to increase hydration, I'd focus more on learning to judge degree of proof. Once you have that nailed, then you should start increasing hydration until you achieve your desired result.
Cheers!
Trevor
First of all, I want to thank you for the nice comment, and thank you for your insight. I have to say that it's not a very clear picture to tell if the crumbs are ok.
Turned out you are right. This morning, I cut open one of the two breads, and photographed it. It was the first loaf I baked. Tonight, I cut the second loaf, and the crumbs were much nicer. So, I guess I just need one more hour for proofing. I was worried that I might over-proofed it because they were in the refrigerator for more than 12 hours...
I'm now wondering what will increase hydration do to the loaves?
I agree with the others, I think your loaf looks great.
I made a short video demonstrating how I make the Tartine bread. Perhaps some of my techniques will help you.
Any feedback regarding the video would be helpful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1adZ44abUY
Proof on...
Roman
Thank you Steinke Beyer! The video is good, very detailed.
compared to mine and I use the full 85% hydration that Robertson calls for. Maybe my issues stem from my Canadian flour that soaks the water right up. Your bread looks wonderful!
Thanks for the comment.
I started to wonder if there are more than one edition of the book Tartine Bread. The version I got says to use 75% hydration. The other post on the TFL forum says they bake their bread in 475F oven.
I'm in Canada too, and that's why I thought 75% hydration is not hydrate enough.
a couple of bread books out out by Chad Robertson. The first one, Tartine Bread does call for 75% hydration but if you add in the levain, it is really 77% hydration if I remember right from the time that I calculated it.
The second book is called Tartine # 3 (he has another recipe book in between that is about desserts I believe) and that one has 85% hydration (81%with the levain and counting the wheat germ in there too) so you are right about your recipe stating 75%.
But watching that video, my dough is quite firm compared to Roman's. My dough stands right up into a ball right from the first sets of foldings. It relaxes to fill the bowl but at no time does it look like batter as shown in the video.
What does your dough look like?
I see. No wonder there are different versions.
Yes. My dough is much firmer than Roman's. My dough only relaxes after final proofing. How did your loaves turn out? Were they similar to mine?
That one turned out fantastic! Here is a link to it: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/45047/my-first-tartine-loaf . I proofed it in the fridge for 10 hours so that might help you a bit. If you want, I can type up my notes on it.
What I am fighting with now are the recipes in Tartine 3. They have a lot more whole grain than the country loaf so I end up with little oven spring and a tight crumb which I am told is fairly normal for the amount of whole grain in the loaf but it doesn't look like the pictures in the book. And I am determined to have huge holes in a whole grain bread. Ha ha!
WOW! Your loaves look amazing! So nice.
I proofed my loaves for 12-13 hrs. This is the 2nd loaf which is the 13 hrs one. One more hour makes a lot more open crumbs.
I just started working on the 1st book, so it will take me some time to tackle the 3rd book. Good luck with those whole grain recipes :-)
Beginners luck I guess. Thank you for the compliment. Maybe I should go back to Tartine 1. He he!