Tartine Country Bread density
Hi all,
First time posting ....
I recently embarked on a wild yeast journey, making Tartine's country loaf for the first time this weekend. I've been baking challah using commercial yeast for years, but this was my first time using a starter, etc.
A friend of mine gave me her starter, and I fed it and left it on the counter for 12 hours and it failed the float test. I decided that my kitchen was too cold, so I put it in my oven, having turned it to 200 degress and then turning it off.
After 4 hours it passed the float test. I mixed the dough, did the 30 minute rest, added the salt and more water, and started the bulk fermentation in my warmish over (I added a pan of boiled water to the bottom) Did my F&T every half hour for 3-4 hours, did the initial shape, bench rest. Then final shape and did final rise in my fridge for 14 hours.
I did not let the dough get to room temp (he didn't mention that it the book) so I just baked it in my dutch oven. the first loaf baked with the cover on for 20 minutes and cover off for 30 minutes. Cooled and sliced. Had some holes but the bread is dense. Second loaf I baked for 30 mins cover on and 40 minutes cover off ... also nice holes but still quite dense.
My question (after this long winded explanation) is
1. is it supposed to be this dense?
2. what can I do to lighten it up?
thanks!!!
When I did the same loaf, I followed the same steps you did aside from using 80f degree water and proofing for 10 hours rather than 14. Your loaf might be seriously over proofed. Here is my post on my first Tartine boules.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/45047/my-first-tartine-loaf
Sorry about the long url but typing on my phone is not letting me imbed the link.
Sounds to me like the starter never got active enough. If it took a full 16 hours for your starter to become gassy enough to pass the float test, then it is not ready to bake with. It should at least triple in volume over the course of a 12 hour period, 8 hours even better.
Find a warmish spot for your starter and wait until it triples in 8-12 hours after refreshing before you try baking with it again. Your bread sounds like it was young when you baked it, but pictures would help to determine for sure. Had the shaped loaves risen noticeably before you baked them?
Trevor
Trevor,
you could be right ....
Last night I took out the 2 containers of starter in my fridge and fed them. they are in an unheated oven and I can see that they are doing better. I don't really understand the whole starter feeding thing. It seems like there is a lot of waste? I took a tablespoon of each in 2 separate jars and added 200 grams of water and 200 grams of flour.
My question is
1. do I have to feed it that quantity?
2. how often do I need to feed it? I may be baking only twice a month.
also, I can't figure out how to post a picture!
Starter maintenance is a very personal matter. Each baker settles upon a method that works best for him or her. Whereas I might keep my starter on the counter at room temp and feed it twice a day, others might keep theirs in the fridge and feed it once a week or less.
You have to find what works best for you. With that said . . .
1. You do not have to feed it that much flour every time. You're dealing with microorganisms that can't even be seen with the naked eye. A few grams of water and flour will do. Use an amount that you find easy to manage but that doesn't seem too wasteful.
2. How often you feed it depends on your method of preferred maintenance. If you only bake twice a month there's no need to keep it at room temp with twice-a-day feeds. Toss it in the fridge and feed it once a week. The key is to make sure you have an active starter though. Don't refrigerate your starter until it can reliably triple in volume in 8-12 hours after a feeding.
If you poke around the site a bit you should find plenty of information on how folks keep their starters. The two responses below both offer very good suggestions. Play around and find out what works best for you. It's all trial and error -- over time you'll get it just right.
As for how to post pictures, just check out the FAQs -- there's a section dedicated to posting photos there.
Cheers!
Trevor
Jackie, there are many different approaches to maintaining sourdough. I try to work backwards. If I need 30 grams of starter, then in the refresh earlier that week, I will take 15 grams of starter, add 15 grams of flour and 15 grams of water and mix. I then take out 15 grams and put it in the fridge where it will stay till I need to make more..When the remaining 30 grams is ready, I use it to bake. You don't need large amounts of starter, just enough to bake your loaf and a little extra so you can have some on hand afterwards . If you are baking only twice a month, I would feed it once a week and let it sit in the fridge. If you find that it starts to look a little punky at the end of the week, the next time give it a few extra grams of flour, so it will have a little more food to last through the week.
DBM's no fuss no muss method of keeping a stater. Here is the link;
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/40918/no-muss-no-fuss-starter
These are pictures from the loaf this weekend and the fourth picture is the starter this morning, after feeding at around 8:30 last night .... it didn't grow at all and I am going nuts! this morning I fed it again, this time with barley flour (don't know why, just thought it might wake it up.) I will check again at 1:00
very frustrated!
I haven't been getting rid of some of the starter when I go to feed it; I've just been adding a little flour and water.
Is it possible that I'm starving it???!!
to feed. You do need to get rid of much of the starter before feeding and not use equal volumes of flour and water,
yes I was feeding it equal amounts of flour and water ...I'm not supposed to?
You need to feed them equal amounts by weight so if you have a kitchen scale, use that to feed 50 gram of flour and 50 grams of water to 50 grams of your starter. If you don't have a scale, take a quarter cup of your starter and feed it a half cup of flour and a quarter cup of water. If it is too thick to stir, add a teaspoon or two of water.
Once your stater is good and active, you can look at other methods of keeping it such as the fridge but for now, keep feeding it when it doubles. You also need to remember to only keep a quarter cup or 50 grams of the starter before feeding it. Throw out the rest.
Feeding it equal measures of water and flour (by weight) is perfectly fine. That's a 100% hydration starter. But if you just keep adding a bit of water and flour without discarding any of the starter then you're creating an overly acidic environment in which not a whole lot is gonna happen.
You want to discard a good portion of starter before you refresh it with more water and flour. That removes the acid load and allows the little buggers to get fermenting in a nice clean environment.
How much to discard?
It depends. With a fairly inactive starter you're usually fine starting off by discarding all but the amount you plan to add individually in water and flour. That's a 1:1:1 starter -- one part starter, one part water, one part flour (all by weight, of course).
When your starter becomes more active (i.e. triples in 8-12 hours) you can reduce that seed amount. Maybe go 1:2:2, or even 1:3:3 (or greater) if your starter is very active.
Over time you'll figure out an appropriate feeding schedule and seed amount that works best for you. But in the beginning, expect a few fits and starts -- it's just the nature of learning sourdough.
Cheers!
Trevor