March 18, 2016 - 11:19pm
Raisin water
Hi can someone bring me up to speed on raisin water please. Could you use sultanas? I have heard that apple cores can be used too is this correct?
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Hi can someone bring me up to speed on raisin water please. Could you use sultanas? I have heard that apple cores can be used too is this correct?
to Dabrownman's Yeast Water primer: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/35473/yw-primer
He's done a very nice write-up on the subject
yeast water
I had not seen RonRay's posts about yeast water before. It appears as though they were written mostly in 2011, and there are dozens of them. Excellent resource, thank you! And thank you to RonRay, too - you have a gift for writing and I will be waiting for more posts from you in the future.
For those who are still following this thread: a great deal of RonRay's individual posts are treatises on specific loaves he has made using yeast water of various formulations, each containing pearls of wisdom gleaned from those individual bakes. But the "perfect pearl" was the primer he wrote about yeast water with all of the most salient points in one place. Here is the TFL link:
Yeast Water & Other Wee Beastie Bubbles (No Math)
I had no luck with raisins. Way too much maintenance and the raisins didn't last as long as the apples. I just recently started using apple cores in my AYW since we got a cute gadget that cuts/cores all in one. It leaves a lot of apple and I couldn't see wasting it. We eat 2 apples a day so I toss the cores in my qt jar of AYW and remove any older cores that look soft/brownish. I have noticed my AYW is the most vigorous it has been in years...mine is several years old. There are probably 6-8 small cores in the qt jar right now with almost the whole jar topped off with water. I use my AYW to sub water in regular yeast breads to keep them soft and flavorful longer...not as a rising agent. Works great ! Challah now stays soft and fresh for days !!! My formula for Challah calls for 2 c water and I use one cup AYW and one cup water for the dough. I have been doing this for months and it is amazing how great the breads come out. Hope you enjoy making AYW. c
in the Challah? I love the idea. I usually use it in heavy whole grain breads to open the crumb or where sour isn't wanted like babka or cinnamon rolls and cut the other levain in half. Do you cut the other leaven down some?
in the Challah? I love the idea. I usually use it in heavy whole grain breads to open the crumb or where sour isn't wanted like babka or cinnamon rolls and cut the other levain in half. Do you cut the other leaven down some?
As a newbie I am a bit confused by all this talk of YW's. So could you please correct me if I'm wrong. The fruit whether it be apples raisins ect goes in a jar with a little sugar and water and is left to ferment?? As the fruit becomes inactive it is replaced? The resulting water is used instead of tap water when making bread and/or can be used as a raising agent?? As the water is used fresh water is added and the mix is fed in much the same way as one would look after a poolish? Is this all correct?
There is no reason at all to add sugar or honey. The fruit itself has plenty of natural sugars. The biggest mistake folks make is not keeping the fermentation at a warm enough temperature. Both the initial growing of the culture and the fermenting of the bread that you are rising with the levain made from the culture or the water need a much warmer temp than SD. I keep it in my oven with the light on which is in the low 80's. That works well. I use a qt jar and a whole apple that is cut into 2" pieces...not finely chopped. I find the raisins give out way faster than the apple. I change the apple about every 7-10 days. I have found I am getting wonderful fermentation from the apple cores ( they have a fair amount of apple on them) and they also do not seem to brown or breakdown very quickly so I have only been removing them from the quart jar when they look tired and adding 2 new cores each time we eat apples...which is pretty often :) Yes the water can be subbed in for regular liquid in your bread formula or you can make a levain with = parts flour of your choice/AYW and let it bubble up and use that as your raising agent. I hope this is clear !! If not ask again. c
Morning. Well I am on day 3 of my a/pyw and things are going great. I added a couple of small diced black plums to the jar at the outset along with the apple and it's merrily producing bubbles and smell lovely. Can I be a pain and ask a couple of questions. So you have a jar full of lovely yw but don't need to use it right away. Can you strain it off, bottle it and keep in the fridge? If so for how long? Or do you leave it with the fruit until you bake? I am assuming that you only use the cores from red apples.
Use the cores from any apple, don't remove anything till you need to...so when cores are brown pull them out and throw away and when you have some new ones toss them in !! When you need some YW for baking shake up the jar and take some out and add the same amount back...put it all in the fridge and voila you are done. You don't need to use any water or replace any water ever unless you want to...just take out old apples and replace with new....yes to any color of apple. When you see the " stuff"collecting on the bottom of the jar...don't throw it away....that is the mother and is full of yeasts. Shake the jar and use the liquid with that in it. It will resettle in the bottom. As you found you can use other fruits as well. I am getting ready to use grapes this coming Fall.
Hope this helps. c
Hey Dab !! Yes in my challah which I have posted on here in the distant past I use it solely for its power to enhance the fresh taste/texture. I got tired of decades of great Challah for about 24 hrs and then the ubiquitous french toast/toast/croutons/grilled cheese... yada yada. Never again. I am here to tell you that you will be amazed when you are still slicing tender flavorful slices of Challah for sandwiches or just to eat plain !! Unheard of :) My family was truly surprised and if I never used my YW for anything else it would be just perfect.
I do use it to ameliorate the sour in my SD formulas as well as when I want to do several levains for one bread. I simply make up 100 gram levain using 50g AYW and 50g flour of choice and let it bubble up and then hold it in the fridge till I make up the formula. Gives a lovely touch so far to all the things I have added it to. So yes whatever other levain is called for is reduced by the above 100g.
In the Challah since my formula is from the 70's it is a yeast based one and the AYW is simply for the tender crumb and to increase the length of freshness.
Oh and if you sub the AYW in the SD banana bread that I have blogged on here ( taken from a very old post about SD banana bread) and let it sit and rise for an hour it makes it so light and wonderful also ! http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20878/waste-notwant-nothow-use-extra-starter
Good Luck and keep me posted. c
Thank you for the most fabulous recipe. My loaves weren't as dark as yours and I used moscavado sugar on the tins but the flavour......fantastic!!
Thanks for the info guys.i had never heard of using raisins. Funnily enough Paul Hollywood uses a diced organic apple no core in his starters. I don't think I will ever get into it as deeply as you all obviously have. I'm happy that I have made a great starter and if I can stop over proving so that my bread doesn't flop I'll be happy. Cheers.
make just a bit more dough. Right before you final shape the dough for the basket take of a bit of dough and roll it in to a ball and put in a small straight sided juice glass and cover it in plastic. Mark how high it is in the glass, For white bread 90% proof, for 50% whole grain breads 85% proof and for 100 % whole grains 80% proof is when it goes into the oven. Just watch the little glass and it will tell you exactly when to get it in the oven.
I never would have thought of something that easy!
I have a straight-sided measuring cup that will work perfectly for this - already has marks.
It never dawned on me that the same dough will rise in two different places at the same rate. No sense in making it complicated by trying to estimate the volume of a round-topped mass of dough in a pan or free-form on a board.
Thanks!
--Mike
bread should look like the molds you use to proof it in and how full the tin should be when you load the do in to it. The hardest thing for bakers to learn is when the bread is properly proofed for the kind of flour they are using and the mold it is in.
This trick allows you to learn faster what the proper look should be. I was over proofing every loaf with little or no oven spring until I posted two pictures of the dough going in the basket and when I thought it was properly proofed. Mini Oven took one look at them and said - You doofus - these are way, way over proofed- over 125%. Since then no worries.
Gee thanks what a great and simple idea. I have some dough doing its first ice at the moment so I will definitely try this out. Cheers.
I have been reading up over night on both these waters. Some say to use apple cores some say to use just the skins and flesh. However can I ask a couple of really basic questions. One. If you remove some of the water to use I am assuming that you top up the jar again and perhaps feed it ? Also when do you know to replace the apple pieces? Can this jar be kept in the fridge as a norm?
Does anyone use sultanas instead of raisins?
Sorry folks you are all so knowledgeable it makes me feel really dumb at the moment:) Still until I have it set in my mind I will pester you with questions. Today I started off a jar of AYW and have read through and digested the routine for the next few days. My question is ....when you remove some of the YW and don't need to make a loaf can you store it in the fridge for future use and if yes how long will it last. Once you have replenished the jar with water and new fruit how soon till you can use some of the liquid?
people don't feed the need if the fruit is still floating When it isnt floating tht is when you change the fruit and feed iit. I put s small amount of suggr and honeu in ther with the new fruit and pieces of the old fruit.
You don't want to refrigerate your YW until it is at least 2-3 weeks old and very established. I treat mine like SD - It sits in fridge unattended for several months. it is very hardy like SD. Now I have to get mine out and see what gives.
Thanks for the reply however I'm still unclear as to whether if you remove some of the YW's from the jar you can keep it separately in the fridge and if so for how long? I added some black plums at the outset to my apples simply because they were there and so far day 3 things are progressing nicely.
I tried that no knead bread and wasn't impressed. Today I have someone's recipe for banana bread (sd ) in the oven and it smells divine, that might become a favourite:)
I don't see a reason to remove some of the AYW and put it aside away from the fruit. I haven't tried it and would think it would run out of energy pretty quickly. Dab is correct that most folks feed their YW when the fruit stops floating. I take out a cup of the YW and replace it with a cup of plain water and put it right back in the fridge . It will pick up strength on its own in the fridge and no need to leave it out on the counter.
When I was starting my YW and now as I maintain it I never add in any other sugars. I am currently using the apple cores and the YW has never been fizzier ! I remove the brown ones and add in the new . Of course it is getting fed WAY more often than ever before as we eat apples almost every day :) YW is very very happy lately.
So glad you love the banana bread !! It is indeed one of my favorite ones. You can substitute applesauce for part of the bananas and other pureed fruit as well for half of the banana. I have tried substituting for all of the banana and didn't the the flavor was quite as good. You can also add other spices and nuts and dried fruits. Use it as a base recipe. Good Luck ! c