The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Should I get a Vintage Bosch or a Vintage Electrolux this Saturday?

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

Should I get a Vintage Bosch or a Vintage Electrolux this Saturday?

Hey yall, I could use some advice from those familiar with vintage machines.

It all started when my mother in law gave me a Family Grain Mill... hand crank. Yeah, I don't want to hand crank to mill grains!

So I was just about to buy a used Artisan Kitchenaid with lots of extras on craigslist. Only $150! But then I started reading about how bread making can be a real struggle with the Artisan. Now I usually do no knead recipies... well, for now.

In comes this Vintage Bosch, which is ALSO $150 and has quite a number of attachments. Thing is, I can't tell if it is a 700watt variety, or something that basically equals the KA. I believe it is a UM3 Deluxe. Here is the listing ----http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/hsh/5452995829.html

THEN I came across a vintage Electrolux for $200, hmmm! ----Https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/app/5473916474.html

Thanks for your advice in advance. Can't wait to finally get a mixer!

Bakers_acre's picture
Bakers_acre

It certainly looks vintage, but may well be a good buy at that price with all the attachments.

I have owned both the Bosch Universal and the Kitchenaid and it is no contest when it comes down to mixing dough. The Bosch wins hands down. The machine you are looking at does seem to be quite old though and you may be better off to see if you can buy a newer Bosch Universal or Bosch Universal Plus. I am exceedingly happy with my more modern machine.

It has a much more powerful motor and the Kitchenaid used to struggle and the motor would overheat and smell of burning before shutting down.

Hope this helps.

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

What in particular do you like about the newer versions? I'm pretty tight on budget :P

Jane Dough's picture
Jane Dough

I have a Universal - newer from Kijiji - and a KA.  In my case it's. the KA I go for.  Easier cleanup.  

Having said that I do most by hand now.  A mixer is used so seldom I could easily do without it. 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

I don't know that much about mixers, but I have read various posts over time that say many of the 'old' machines were much better made than the modern ones. Is there any way you can find out (by searching the model number, perhaps) when and where (and by whom) this was made?

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

Well, as far as I know, Bosch makes all their own stuff. So, Germany.

Jane, what makes cleanup easier? And what Kitchenaid do you have?

I mainly just need a motored appliance that can be a mixer, food processor and grain mill. The Bosch design seems far superior because there are half the moving parts, and it's a circular motion versus the crank of the Kitchenaid. Basically, for my money, I want something that I don't have to baby.. I don't want to worry about the machine overheating because most of the wattage turns into heat going into the mechanical parts.

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Actually, Bosch mixers are made in Slovenia. :(

http://www.productfrom.com/products/0/Bosch/Mixers/

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Actually, Bosch mixers are made in Slovenia. :(

http://www.productfrom.com/products/0/Bosch/Mixers/

Jane Dough's picture
Jane Dough

Hi Amy...

i have the KA Classic with the 275 w motor and I have a KA Pro with the 600 w motor. If I make a single loaf without a bunch of additions to it the Classic will handle it very nicely. If I am making more than a 2000 g I use the 600.  No complaints with the performance of either. Having said that I nowadays seldom use either. I'm baking for home use only. And I really enjoy the hands-on experience in creating a loaf or two at a time. I have gained enough experience to manipulate the time to suit me and whatever schedule I need.  

I used the Universal for a while. But as someone else said it doesn't do quite as well with small batches as the KA. However it does the heavier fruit laden loaves no problem. I have no complaints with it either. I tend to use the Universal and the Classic equally when it comes to other baking. 

Whrn I first started baking naturally leavened bread I did use a machine. But I wasn't getting a good feel for the various stages of development- mostly a lack of experience.  Eventually, through no particular plan, and a combination of both machine mixed one day and hand mixed the next, I learned what my bread needed to feel like to give me the kind of loaf I wanted. It didn't happen overnight but it did happen. I'm not sure how long that would have taken without the benefit of a KA or Bosch. 

The cleanup of the Universal is a little pickier - small parts and re-assembly.  It is not anything major though and I don't want to leave you with that impression. I'm just big on simple.  Cleanup is a big issue for me :). I'm not keen on it.  For now, as long as my hands don't complain I will continue with my manual mix, minimal dirty dish method.

 Whatever you decide, enjoy!

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

I thought about getting an old Hobart KA, but they're pricey and I still don't like Kitchenaid internal design.

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

Woah! I might get this Electrolux DLX instead! $200. I wonder if the new Ankarsrum attachments work on the old Electrolux machines. What do you think?

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/app/5473916474.html

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

Assuming it is as described, I'd jump on that with both feet. It's only 2 model revisions old and all parts should fit. There is an older model which has a different dough hook, but you're not likely to ever break that anyway. :P

As a dough machine, it is unequaled unless you go for a very expensive, special purpose tool. I've had mine for several years, and there is nothing it has failed to do for me (I don't use the accessories, but have never heard a negative comment).

cheers,

gary

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

Ima jump on it then! By the way, is it just me or are there LOADS of bakers in Portland, OR?

Stay tuned for show and tell :)

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

Ima jump on it then! By the way, is it just me or are there LOADS of bakers in Portland, OR?

Stay tuned for show and tell :)

tgrayson's picture
tgrayson

That Bosch isn't worth $150...you probably could get it for much less, but it still looks to be a hunk of junk. I can't even tell if it includes a dough hook.

The modern Bosch is pretty good with bread dough, but doesn't handle small batches well, or very wet dough. I don't recommend it.

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

Tgrayson, what think you of the Electrolux I posted? And what's your preferred mixer?

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

Tgrayson, what think you of the Electrolux I posted? And what's your preferred mixer?

tgrayson's picture
tgrayson

I have the modern version of the Electrolux, now known as Ankarsrum. It's a great machine, highly recommended. It's in the $800 range new.

The one you posted looks pretty much the same. Looks like a great deal. Keep in mind that while it's about the best bread dough machine around, I'm skeptical that it's good at other mixing tasks.

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

Have you ever tried attachments? Like a grain mill or food processor?

 

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

Also, I believe the older Electrolux is only 400 watts or so versus the 700+ of the newer incarnations. Thoughts on that?

tgrayson's picture
tgrayson

I'm not sure that the mixing ability of the Electrolux is very power demanding. Rather than having a hook embedded in a mass of dough, the dough in the Electrolux is mashed against the wall of the bowl with a roller. It's possible that the increase in power was mainly to benefit other accessories that are more power dependent, but I'm not sure about that. You might throw that question out to the forum; there are probably some here that have the 400 watt unit.

I don't have any of the other accessories and probably wouldn't buy them because there isn't a lot of information on the internet about them. I don't like to buy stuff unless I can find a lot of reviews.

tgrayson's picture
tgrayson

BTW, the ad for the Electrolux says it's 600 watts.

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

Lol, yeah, I must have gotten it confused with a different mixer. Well that's a nice plus.

RightNow's picture
RightNow

I have a new one and love it. I've been putting its paces for bread and delicate things. So far I have zero complaints and will never go back to a KA for anything, not even pastries or cakes. I have several attachments so far. I have the mixer, citrus press, and the "complete" set with the grinder, sausage maker, pasta extruder, and a few other things. 

The blender is no vitamix bit it works well for what it is. The citrus press works well though honestly it was part of a package deal, I doubt I would've bought it separately. Surprisingly I've used it a lot more than I thought I might as the bowl is easy to clean. The grinder I haven't used much yet but I have made pasta via extrusion. It was awesome. I will buy the pasta rollers for flat pasta later. Grain mill soon but is highly recommended by a friend that uses his all the time. 

hope that helps a bit. 

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

Eek! You're making me excited! If you know anyone or end up getting a food processor attachment, do let me know. Very interested in that and the grain mill.

OldWoodenSpoon's picture
OldWoodenSpoon

by several years, but it was made for the USA market, so everything is in English.  I still use mine and it is a workhorse.  It has made good bread for 35 years, and it is still doing so.  I would not fear it for it's age, and if it is in as good shape as represented, it is no "hunk of junk" as tgrayson suggests.  I agree, however, that it is not so good at small batches though.  As for wet dough, it will do the job if the batch is large enough, but it takes more wet dough to get a good job than it does of more usual hydration, say up to 75%.  Foccaccia and Ciabatta are not very workable unless you make a lot.  I finally bought a KitchenAide (off Craigslist too!) for my really wet doughs.

It looks like a good deal to me.  Best of luck if you take the plunge.

OldWoodenSpoon

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

Craigslist is indeed wonderful.

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Amy,  If I were you,  there would be smoke rising from patches of rubber in my driveway and I would already be at the house where the Electrolux is being sold.  The ad says it is the 600 watt version, though it is quite likely the earlier version, that I have, that is 400 or 450 watts, which still has plenty of power for anything you would want to knead.  I had that model  Bosch, it is pretty similar to the Universal, but it has one less speed, IIRC.  The photo does not show the interior of the mixing bowl, so I don't know if it has the 3 legged dough hook that comes up from the bottom, which works pretty well, or the standard dough hook that goes from above.  If it is the former, I think you would need a separate bowl to use the whips for general things like cake mixes etc.   If it is the latter, I am not a big fan, at certain hydrations and amount of dough, the dough would sit there and not get kneaded at all , and that is the reason I sold mine.  The Assistent does not have that problem, no matter how big or small or wet or dry, it will knead dough.   That price is a good one for just the base machine, but the photo shows it comes with the beater bowls and whips, so you can do lighter items such as egg whites.  The one thing that is missing is the cookie whips, but they are pretty inexpensive.  The drawback with the Assistent is that the accessories are quite expensive.  BTW, I agree with tgrayson,  you can't compare power ratings because they are designed so differently.  There are numerous reports of KA humming, smoking, or burning out while kneading regardless of wattage,  I have never read a single one, even though there are many who have 400 watt versions for 20 years or more.  My understanding is that they increased the wattage of the Assistent primarily for marketing reasons, and in fact, I have seen a Breadbeckers video which says they don't even use the high speed on the new versions for bread making at all. 

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

What about the squiggly a shaped dough hook in the photo? 

Also, I would have driven, but it's a long drive :P

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

It [the dough hook] is really for large batches, though I find the roller works just as well except for very large, low hydration batches.

The power is simply not an issue because the motor is only working against the torsion bar on the roller arm, not against the dough ball.

I use the plastic bowl and whisks only for batters and meringues.  The big bowl and roller will do the same job, but the plastic bowl is easier to pour from. :shrug:

gary

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

Hmm... I've heard that it can handle small batches too as long as you make sure to add dry ingredients after wet. 

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

I prefer to use the roller and scraper for all doughs, except as I noted above.  And yes, small and large batches are handled equally well.

It is intrinsic to this type of mixer to always add the dry to the wet ingredients.

g

tgrayson's picture
tgrayson

I never obey that "rule" and I don't experience any problems. Perhaps it takes a bit longer to get all the ingredients incorporated, but I can't say for sure. What's a minute or two amongst friends?

tgrayson's picture
tgrayson

Also, while it does work well for small batches, I tend to use my food processor for that, at least when I intend a long fermentation. 15s in my food processor to mix the ingredients, followed by about three stretch and folds at suitable intervals. Much faster than the mixer and the bowl fits into my dishwasher much more easily.

 

 

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

The topic is not about food processors, is it? No, the question, at this point in the thread is about two specific mixers' issues with high and low hydration, and large and small batches.

Pay attention.

gary

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

Then why not do it the suggested way.  Your comment makes no practical sense.

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

Now now Gary, simmer down. It's a good reminder that if some recipe down the line has trouble in the Lux, a food processor is a cabinet away. Though I do plan on adding dry to wet.

And now (after figuring out how to UPLOAD PHOTOS ARHGHHGG#*$&#*!!!!!!),
My new - and I mean NEW - baby!

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

When we hadn't heard by Sunday, I was worried you might have missed it, e.g. Barry smoked tires across country and beat you to the punch.

Just remember, when it comes to dough, the Assistent is a gentle giant. If the mixer arm is banging, or the mixer is 'walking', you're either running too fast or the arm is set too close to the rim.

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Amy,   please post back in a week or so about what you like, or don't like, about the Assistent.  Pretty regularly someone has a question about the Assistent, and it is good to get as much input from users as possible.   Before I got mine, I scoured the internet and had trouble finding much about it, and couldn't figure out what people were talking about when they said roller and scraper. 

AmyofEscobar's picture
AmyofEscobar

Barry, I always use both Google and YouTube as search engines, so that how I saw what the whole fuss was about. But it's also really confusing because there are so many names for this machine. I will report back! Might do a few videos myself...

BTW if anyone has access to both a bosch universal and an Assistant, YouTube is lacking comparison videos. Also comparing to a Kitchenaid, there aren't enough quality videos.

Gary, the reason I didn't post back was because I wanted to put up a photo but I couldn't figure out how to post from my ipad :P