The Fresh Loaf

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Another neophyte chasing the Sour Gods

adrianjm's picture
adrianjm

Another neophyte chasing the Sour Gods

I have been baking sourdough for about 2 years now. When I first started, the bread had a nice strong sour flavour, enough for people to comment on how sour it was. Not sure at the time if it was to their taste, but it certainly was to mine. Fast forward to today, and my sour taste is nothing more than a memory. My recipe at the start was quite different to what it is now, and unfortunately I did not keep a diary or changes. Although in terms of the starter, things were not so different from today. From memory it was a 100% hydration with just plain flour, fed daily, left at room temperature. For the last 6 months or so, I have tried many variations, mostly from the posts of others on this website, all without sour success. This is what I have tried:  

  1. Change the hydration. I have gone from 100% hydration down to about 50%. I gave this about a week for flavours to change;
  2. Change the temperature. I have had the starter at room temperature (17 degrees), in a cold room (about 7 degrees), and in the fridge;
  3. Change the feeding. I started feeding once per day, and have increased this to twice per day (when at room temp), presently the starter is in the fridge and I only feed when I make bread (every other day). On this day I keep the starter at room temperature for about 6 hours to reactivate after being in the fridge;
  4. Changed the ingredients. I started with only ASDA bread flour, and have tried adding 20% Rye flour to the feeds;
  5. Combining my existing starter and some Whole Foods starter;
  6. Retard the finished dough in the fridge for an additional 24 hours.
 In some instances i have combined the changes above, but not always. For example I tried adding rye and refrigeration. The sour gods didn't hear my changes. My bread recipe is as follows: Start the Poolish in the morning, the day before the bake:   
  • 140g Starter (This starter has a very strong smell, with hooch on top)
  • 50g Rye
  • 250g Strong bread flour
  • 320g water
 Combine and cover with cling wrap for 24 hours (This used to be 12 hours, but I found that refrigerated starters take much longer before I see that point where the poolish collapses)  Morning of Bake:  
  • 200g Strong bread flour (sometimes 150 with another 50 Rye)
  • 11g salt
  • 1/2 tablespoon malt barley
 Mix and knead for 10-20 minutes. Form into a boule, into the bannetton, let double in size and bake in a crock for 50 minutes.  I use this method because I am more than happy with the rise, the crumb, and the crust. It really does also taste pretty good, with the exception of the missing sour flavour which I still dream about... :-)   Are there any additional ideas I can try to get that sour taste back into my bread? I'm kind of exhausted for ideas. 
dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

(15% extaction) take 10 g of your starter and feed it 20 g each of the extracted bran and water. Keep it at 93 F. 4 hours later feed it 30 g each of the bran and wagter. Throw nothing away and keep it at 90 - 93 F for 4 hours, Then feed it 40 g each of the bran and water. Put this in the fridge for 2 days. The build a levain using the 85% extraction left over partial WW.exactly the same way. You will end up with 190g of levain that eill make a nice;y sour loaf of brtead if you do the dough work at 90 F and retard for a bulk ferment. Using white flour at room temperature for starter and levain and feeding often with discard each time will make the least sour bread possible. Low extraction bran at high temperature makes for a sour starer,.levain and bread. No worries it happens to everyone.

If you want to keep a starter that is always sour then do this

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/40918/no-muss-no-fuss-starter

Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

As you might recall from my post that you commented on this week, I just made my first sourdough from homemade starter, and my first loaf was in the sour sweet spot.  My intention is to maintain the starter in the fridge, baking/feeding weekly or bi-weekly.  Will my sourness also dissipate this way?

I was intrigued by your comment the other day (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/344254#comment-344254).  I don't currently have 92 F in my setup, but it's early yet.

adrianjm's picture
adrianjm

I appreciate the detailed reply and will try making this starter. I spent some time going over your no fuss starter also, and I find it interesting the slight change of emphasis on the type of flour and the slight increase in temperature between that post and this one. That got me to thinking that I did used to live in a warmer climate when I first created the starter. Perhaps that made some of the difference in sour flavour (summer in Devon, England). Now that I am living in Scotland, the warmest my kitchen reaches is about 17 degrees....... 

I never really gave this much thought since most posts are about retardation and refrigerated starters. Initialising a starter in a hot environment went over my head, much like many things.... :-)

Cheers,

 

Adrian

adrianjm's picture
adrianjm

Other than in the oven, how can I precisely control the temperature of my starter? Is there something that can maintain even temperatures? 

I have  a yoghurt maker that maintains temperature between 40-47c (104-116F), but I guess that would be too hot?

 

Adrian

drogon's picture
drogon

Hard to do in a domestic environment unless you want to go to the trouble of making something yourself... The yogurt maker probably has a fixed setting so you won't be able to lower it. Do you have an airing cupboard? What about some of the heating mats you get for homebrewing (although I don't know what temperature they work at)

Or maybe just grow to like the new taste... My sourdoughs are barely sour at all, but I've found that overly sour breads don't sell well here - in rural Devon... My 100% wholemeal sourdoughs were quite potent, but never sold )-:

-Gordon

(Who moved out of Scotland many years ago and ended up in Devon :)

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

If one setting is a bit too high I just put a towel under the starter, levain or dough till it gets it pretty close tp the temperature I need.  I've see terrarium heater mats for turtles at the pet store that you can set the temperature where you want it and they fit in a large plastic tub with a lid.