Question about adding flour during mixing & kneading
Hello everyone,
I'm very new to bread baking and I still need to get a feel for the dough. When following a recipe, should the entire amount of flour be added during the initial mixing, or should some be held back and added during the initial kneading process?
I recently made the following grain bread recipe:
Ingredients
- 1 1/2 cups warm water
- 3/4 Tablespoon fast acting yeast (~ 1 packet or 2 1/4 tsp) <-- (used instead yeast at a lesser amount)
- 2 Tablespoons maple syrup, agave, or honey if not vegan
- 1/2 Tablespoon salt
- 1 Tablespoon flax seed
- 2 cups Bob’s Red Mill Whole Wheat Pastry Flour (<--instead of this I used a mix of 1 cup cake flour and 1 cup whole wheat flour)
- 1 3/4 cups Bob’s Red Mill Unbleached All Purpose Flour + more for rolling / dusting
- 2 Tablespoons raw or roasted sunflower seeds
- 2 Tbsp rolled oats
- Combine warm water (like bath water, or 110°F), yeast, maple syrup or sugar, salt, flax seed and flours in a large mixing bowl and stir. The result will be a sticky, rough dough. If using a stand mixer, beat at medium speed for about a minute. Otherwise just use a spoon to stir until well combined and when it can no longer do the job, knead and turn it in the bowl with your hands. Add flour until the dough is no longer sticking to the sides - about 3 3/4 cups total.
I added in the all the flour while still mixing with a spoon, then began kneading the dough by hand. It was very sticky but I was afraid to add flour. Anyway, after kneading for at least 15 minutes or so, it never got smooth or changed in that way that all the websites indicated it should.
- Lift the dough out and lightly grease the bowl with nonstick spray or olive oil. Cover and let rise for 2 hours at room temperature and 2 hours in the fridge. Alternatively, go straight for the fridge for two hours to save time, though a longer rise is best.
- Use fingers to create a small hole in the dough and pour in sunflower seeds and oats. Transfer dough to a lightly floured work surface and knead about 20 turns or until elastic. Form into a loaf-like shape.
Again, I kneaded for quite some time but the dough did not become smooth or even close to passing the "window-pane" test.
Is this an issue with my flour substitution? With my kneading technique? Should I have reserved some flour to add in later? How much flour is too much to add?
The bread ultimately had a very tough crust but was a bit dense on the inside.
Hi Luna
Some folks hold back flour, some liquid. Personally, I would hold back flour, as I think it is easier to add than water, to make mix. But, by trial and error, I strive for a recipe that requires no holding back of either.
I would also persue a simpler recipe if I were you. Don't let too many components confuse your efforts. Start simple and expand from there.
Don't be afraid to go really basic; Flour, Water, Salt and Yeast. Don't be afraid to measure only by your wits and hands. Don't be afraid to use only your hands and time to develop the dough.
I think you might find quicker answers with such practices.
dobie
I suppose you are probably right. I like multi-grain and wheat breads so I started with those but it would probably be helpful to start much simpler.
Luna
I would suggest you could start with 15% of the flour total being WW or any other grain flour you wish. One simple loaf at a time. And then boost that percentage, one loaf at a time, until you're happy
Boost again, until you have had enough, and then introduce the various grains and seeds that you wish; slowly, percentage wise. Again, one loaf at a time, repeat as necessary to perfect.
That's at least three credits at Bakers College.
dobie
I agree with Dobie, that recipe has far too much going on, start with a recipe calling for just Flour Water, Salt and Yeast
I recall similar experiences when first starting out. I was always wondering if I wasn't kneading right, if I needed to add flour or water, if I just needed to knead more, etc. The main problem was I didn't know what to expect even after watching videos, reading books and web sites, etc.
What I would suggest is, as the others advised, start with a simple bread. Weigh your ingredients rather than measuring by volume. Though you hear a lot about adjusting the amount of water or flour to get the right consistency, just use the amounts specified in the formulas. You can worry about fine-tuning the dough consistency after you get more experience. Finally, use a mixer or a bread machine to mix and knead the dough. This way, you can see how the dough is supposed to end up and how it's supposed to feel when properly developed. When you return to mixing and kneading by hand, you know what you're shooting for.