The Fresh Loaf

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Sour Doough Rye from the Joy of Cooking

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Anneg's picture
Anneg

Sour Doough Rye from the Joy of Cooking

Hey, Y'all, I'm new to this great site, but I'm a veteran home baker and have made sourdough for many years. A friend and I decided to try the sourdough Rye from the Joy of Cooking. Has anybody made this very traditional (read old, my JoC is copywrited 1965) recipe? The starter seemed to work fine. The second step was way too firm and did NOTHING after 18 hours, so I added more water. Then it started to bubble, etc like a sourdough starter. Now i'm on the 3rd step, trying to follow the recipe, but it still hasn't fallen back on itself as the recipe says. I haven't been able to find anything anywhere on that recipe. Any ideas? BTW I'm using Hodgson Mill whole grain rye flour. Could that be the problem, since it is very heavy? Thanks for your input, Anne

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Cool.  The first time I saw it was in 1985.  Unfortunately I don't have a copy but I'm sure someone does.  It should soon fall down.  Is the recipe written for Rye flour or wheat?  BTW welcome to The Fresh Loaf.   Give us a run down of the basic recipe and we can compare it to later versions too.  Thanks.

Mini O

Anneg's picture
Anneg

Good idea.  Here is the basic recipe:

Day 1:

Mix 1/2 c rye flour

1/4 c water

1/2 cake compressed yeast

Let rest 24 hours at 80.

2nd Day:

Add in 3/4 c water

1 c rye flour

In 4 hours it should be fermented and ready to use.  I covered it and waited and waited.  This was very hard and never bubbly.

(I added water here)

Sponge 1:

Mix with the sourdough above;

1 3/4 cup rye flour

2/3 of 1/2 cake compressed yeast

Ferment at 80 til it drops back on itself. (I'm still waiting for this to happen.  It's been about 18 hours.  The culture is bubbly and fermenting.)

 

Sponge 2

Add Sponge 1 and

1 3/4 c rye flour

1 3/4 c ap flour

Remaining bit of yeast cake

1 cup water

Ferment until it drops again.

Add 1 c water

1 T salt

1 3/4 cup ap flour

1 T caraway seeds

 

Rest mixture for 15 to 20 mins

Knead with 1 3/4 to 2 c ap flour. Divide, shape into 2 loaves. Bake about 1 hour at 425 with baking pan 1/4 full of water for first 20 mins. Remove water and finish baking.

So, I'm still waiting for it to fall back on itself.  I added more water (about 1 cup because it did nothing and even I know yeast needs moisture to work.)

What do y'all think?  Anne

pjkobulnicky's picture
pjkobulnicky

I had an ephiphany a while ago with the same issue.

 Like you I was used to wheat starters and what bubbly meant.  Then I tried a pure rye starter and it wasn't nearly as bubbly. I tried and tried until I had the presence of mind to do the starter in a glass bowl. When I did the rye starter and saw no typical bubbling I looked at the starter from the bottom of the bowl and there were the bubbles ... it actually looks more like an artificial sponge ... seems smooth on the top but it swells up with lots of very small holes.

 

Check it out. Maybe others have similar perspectives.

 

Paul Kobulnicky

Baking in Ohio

sphealey's picture
sphealey

=== I tried and tried until I had the presence of mind to do the starter in a glass bowl. When I did the rye starter and saw no typical bubbling I looked at the starter from the bottom of the bowl and there were the bubbles ... it actually looks more like an artificial sponge ... seems smooth on the top but it swells up with lots of very small holes. ===

Absolutely. But if you put the rye sour in a smaller, more cylindrical glass container rather than a shallow-radius bowl you will also see that it does expand in volume quite a bit.

sPh

Anneg's picture
Anneg

Thanks, Paul, I noticed that.  the starters did get lighter and puffier and smell like sourdough when they had enough water.  They did absolutely nothing in step 2 above whenthey were so dry.  thanks.  Anne

pjkobulnicky's picture
pjkobulnicky

It's curious that with starters you begin to learn with wet starters and then develop your expertise to work with drier and drier ones as opposed to doughs where you start with dry ones  and learn to work with wetter and wetter ones.  There is just no consistancy to life :-)

 

Paul 

 

Paul Kobulnicky

Baking in Ohio

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

puffs up and has a crust like surface. Don't just watch it, Poke it and see if it falls in. Or tear at the top with a fork to see if it falls.

The recipe appears wet enough to me (and because I need to refresh my starter) I mixed 1/2 cup rye with 1/4 cup water and and about 1/2 cube's worth of firm starter and took this picture: Dry??? (and for day two, if I add 1 cup rye and 2/4 water it would look the same but the recipe says 3/4 water so it would be even thinner....)  Could there be a miscalculation here? 

Rye and water mixture in step one

Rye and water mixture for day one

Mini O

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I don't have any experience creating a rye starter with commercial yeast. I've always started with a wheat sd starter and converted it to rye. The process, in general, has been: Day 1: Convert active wet wheat starter to wet rye starter. Ferment.Day 2: Convert wet rye starter to firm rye starter. Ferment. Day 3: Build the dough.  etc. In "Secrets of a Jewish Baker," Greenstein has you sprinkle 1/4 cup of rye flour over each starter build. As the starter ferments, the dry rye flour separates into sort of "continents." The spreading of the dry flour provides another measure of starter expansion. It also keeps the starter from drying out or forming a crust. I think it looks way cool!
David