The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Protease and delayed fermentation

Dave Mott's picture
Dave Mott

Protease and delayed fermentation

Hey everybody,

Hope this post sparks some debate. Would love to hear from you! So here it goes.

Hope y'all are doing great! I've been working hard at trying to find a fine balance of delayed fermentation without losing too much gluten structure. Something I learned about not long ago was protease. Which was affecting the gluten network of my bread due to possible over-fermentation. Do I want a very open holed crumb, or do I want a more closed holed crumb. So I came to came to the conclusion...I want both!! HAHA!!

So trying to balance my work schedule around baking bread and getting the results I desire was my next challenge. A few experiments later and I came up with some pretty descent results.

As a sandwich lover, and a homemade mayo lover, my bread preference would be a more close holed even crumb, for obvious reasons. Like mayo dripping through the holes and onto my face. Pretty obvious right! But I also love the beautiful classic open holed crumb as well, which actually is my favorite. So for certain sandwiches I just switch between both styles of bread.

So here are some pictures and recipes of two bakes, utilizing cold delayed fermentation.

Bake one:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see above, nice bloom.

As you can see below, nice open crumb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bake two:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can above, nice bloom.

As you can see below, nice closed even crumb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Recipe's:

Bake one:

Organic Bread Flour                                                 1200g         60%

Organic Whole Grain Stone Ground Red Fife           600g          30%

Starter @ 100% hydration (Organic Bread Flour)      400g          20%

Water                                                                        1100g         55%

Salt                                                                             40g            2%

 

Total Flour                                                                 2000g        100%

Total Water                                                               1300g          65%

 

Day one:

1. 6:00am feed starter and keep out at room temp.

2. Go to work!

3. Get home. 4:00pm mix flour and water together. Autolyse for 1 hour.

4. Mix flour, starter and salt. Rest for 10 minutes.

5. Dump out of bowl. Do 1 stretch and fold, cover and rest for 20 minutes.

6. Continue to do 5 more stretch and folds with 20 minute rest periods in between. Basically 1 stretch and fold every 20 minutes. Works out to be 6 stretch and folds within 2 hours.

7. Put in bowl and bulk rise at room temp for 2 hours.

8. Put in fridge and retard until I get home from work next day. About 20-22 hours.

Day 2:

1. Take out of fridge, dump out on counter, cut four equal pieces (I scaled mine at around 800g each), lightly pat down to deflate a little, stretch and fold, tension pull and shape, and place in bannetton's. Proof for about 1.5 hours (sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less).

2. Pre-heat dutch ovens for about an hour to 500 degrees.

3. Take out dutch ovens, flip dough out of bannetton's into your hand, place in dutch ovens, score loafs, place dutch ovens with lid on back in oven and bake at 500 degrees for 20 minutes.

4. After 20 minutes take lids off dutch ovens and bake for an additional 15-30 minutes at 375 degrees.

5. When ready take out of dutch ovens and let cool overnight

Bake two:

Organic Bread Flour                                                 1200g         60%

Organic Whole Grain Stone Ground Rye Flour          600g          30%

Starter @ 100% hydration (Organic Bread Flour)      400g          20%

Organic Blackstrap Molasses                                    100g           5%

Water                                                                        1000g         50%

Salt                                                                             40g            2%

 

Total Flour                                                                 2000g        100%

Total Water                                                               1300g          65% (5% from the molasses)

Day one:

1. 6:00am feed starter and keep out at room temp.

2. Go to work!

3. Get home. 6:00pm mix flour and water together. Autolyse for 2 hours. (Different then bake one)

4. Mix flour, starter, molasses and salt. Rest for 10 minutes.

5. Dump out of bowl. Do 1 stretch and fold, cover and rest for 20 minutes.

6. Continue to do 5 more stretch and folds with 20 minute rest periods in between. Basically 1 stretch and fold every 20 minutes. Works out to be 6 stretch and folds within 2 hours.

7. Put in bowl and bulk rise at room temp for 45 minutes. (Different then bake one)

8. Put in fridge and retard until I get home from work next day. About 19-20 hours. (Different then bake one)

Day 2:

1. Take out of fridge, dump out on counter, cut four equal pieces (I scaled mine at around 800g each), lightly pat down to deflate a little, stretch and fold, tension pull and shape, and place in bannetton's. Proof for about 1.5 hours (sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less).

2. Pre-heat dutch ovens for about an hour to 500 degrees.

3. Take out dutch ovens, flip dough out of bannetton's into your hand, place in dutch ovens, score loafs, place dutch ovens with lid on back in oven and bake at 500 degrees for 20 minutes.

4. After 20 minutes take lids off dutch ovens and bake for an additional 15-30 minutes at 375 degrees.

5. When ready take out of dutch ovens and let cool overnight

 

I know the flours are different, but I have done the exact same bake with rye flour and molasses as in bake one and still have got a very open crumb structure.

So it seems by reducing the bulk fermentation at room temperature from 2 hours, down to 45 minutes made a huge impact on the crumb structure. I only reduced cold fermentation by about an hour or two. Whether or not this makes a huge difference, not sure. And also autolysed for an extra hour which not sure if it makes a huge difference.

Also I think that I under-proofed by a margin as well. At the 1.5 hour mark, they looked and felt like they could have proofed some more. Interesting?? A combination of both reducing room temperature bulk fermentation and unde-rproofing might have worked together to give me a more closed even crumb.

Anyways, this is open for debate. Love to hear from you!

Cheers!

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

dobie's picture
dobie

Dave

I think it's amazing that two such beautiful looking bakes can create such different crumbs.

The recipes are so similar as well. And you can get similar results of bake one with rye and molasses, so you must be on to something.

Unfortunately, as I consider these same issues myself, I am far too ignorant at the moment to engage in any meaningful discussion regarding them. But I will be paying attention.

BTW, red fife. If I remember correctly it is a particular strain of wheat? How does it behave in dough? Similar to Hard Winter Red?

Anyway, thanks for the post. I will keep observing any responses.

dobie

Dave Mott's picture
Dave Mott

Thanks for your reply!

I'm just learning about protease as well, and always learning about the complexities of baking bread. That's why I'm hoping to spark some debate about this. Besides the only way to learn is to experiment and see what happens.

Red Fife is what they are calling a heritage grain. By far it's my favorite grain to bake bread with. It has some great history as well. If I was to say how it behaves, I guess I would say that it blends well, forms a really nice gluten structure when kneading, and tastes amazing!

I have never used Hard Winter Red, so I can't compare.

Cheers!

Dave

Trevor J Wilson's picture
Trevor J Wilson

I'd think 30% Red Fife compared to 30% rye is what's responsible for most of the difference in crumb. But you say you've achieved the same open crumb with rye (recipe #2) using procedure #1? With the full 30% rye (and molasses)? Surprising, but very cool. So here's what to do . . .

First, try to recreate both results using the same recipe/procedure for each. If your results are not the same, then there are more variables at play here. End the experiment and isolate more variables. If the results do come out the same as above, then your methods predict the results. Awesome! 

Now switch.

Use recipe #1 with method #2 and vice versa. Do your results switch as predicted? If not, then there are more variables at play here. If your results do switch as predicted, then there's your answer. It's all the method.

Once you know that it's the method causing the difference in crumb, then you can start to form a theory as to why. But trying to form a theory without first proving that the method provides predictable results amounts to no more than speculative shots in the dark.  

Predictable/re-createable results first; theory second.

I'd still put my money on the different flours here though . . . 

Cheers!

Trevor J. Wilson

Dave Mott's picture
Dave Mott

Thanks for your reply!

Just what I was thinking. A little more experimenting has to be done using the exact same recipe, including flours for recipe #2. So that is what I will try.

Yes I have done and recreated recipe #1 using Red Fife, Whole Wheat, Rye, Spelt. All with the same results. Very open crumb. Some more than others of course.

Cheers!

Dave