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Really slack and wet dough ?

flynnboy's picture
flynnboy

Really slack and wet dough ?

Hi

I am in the process of trying out this Rustic bread recipe: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/recipes/rusticbread

I have followed the recipe exactly and the final dough is really wet - is it supposed to be like this ? I think it will be very difficult to 'fold'.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Did you do the preferment?  

I copied the recipe and preferment directions over...

Rustic Bread

Makes 2 large loaves

Preferment:
1 lb. bread flour (3 1/2 cups)
9.5 oz. water (1 1/4 cups)
1/2 tablespoon salt
1/8 teaspoon instant yeast

Final dough:
10 oz. bread flour (2 1/2 cups)
6 oz. whole wheat or rye flour or a mixture of them (around 1 1/2 cups)
12.5 oz. water (1 1/2 cups)
1/2 tablespoon salt
1/2 teaspoon instant yeast
all of the preferment

Put the yeast in the water and stir. Mix the flour and salt together in a bowl and pour in the yeasted water. Mix until the flour is hydrated, adding more water if necessary. Cover the bowl with plastic wrap and leave the pre-ferment out at room temperature overnight (up to 16 hours... if you need more time before baking put it in the refrigerator).

Tricky part here is "up to 16 hours"  so depending on the temp, it could easily overproof if too warm.  So that is why I ask.  

Also... exactly... how are you measuring dry and wet ingredients?  

Go thru the list of ingredients and make sure you didn't leave out salt or anything else.

If you've got some rolled oats, toss in a handful into the dough and fold it in, they are great sucker uppers and in about 20 minutes rest, can help you get a manageable dough feel should it be too wet.  The final dough can thicken up if chilled or with a few folds about 20 minutes apart.  Amazing how that works!  Try not to add too much extra flour.

flynnboy's picture
flynnboy

Hi MO

I have followed the recipe exactly and measured everything according to it i.e. 12.5oz water etc. Yes I did the preferment.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

like if you used dry measure cups (without rims) scoop and level or shake to level or if the flour was sifted first.  Those kinds of things.  If you used a liquid measure cup for dry ingredients, etc.   Volume measurements can be so variable.  

What I suspect now (edited) is that an Irish measuring cup is smaller than an American one.  If that's the case, you may need to add more flour.  if you fill up your dry measure cup with water and pour it into the liquid measure cup with oz...  how many ounces do you get?

gerhard's picture
gerhard

What I suspect now (edited) is that an Irish measuring cup is smaller than an American one.  If that's the case, you may need to add more flour.  if you fill up your dry measure cup with water and pour it into the liquid measure cup with oz...  how many ounces do you get?

Actually the imperial measure is larger than the American cup measure, the American cup is about 4 or 5% smaller.  It seems counter intuitive as everything else American is bigger and better ;)

Gerhard

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

If you use cup measurements provided its the same cup it shouldn't be a problem. 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

type of measurement.  Either go all oz or go cups but don't cross check with each other or mix them up.

if 8 oz is a US cup, then the  1 1/2 cups water should read 12 oz not 12.5  So the cups used must be imperial cups.   So interesting things can happen going from oz to cups and countries.  Drives me nuts so I go to grams.  The gram recipe is near to the bottom of the page.  Seems like many have thought the dough too wet.  I can't remember anymore how mine came out, doesn't matter but I had success and have suggested the recipe often.  I do tend to hold a little water back with every recipe just to see how the ingredients are blending together and add if needed.  Usually know in the first few minutes of mixing.  I would rather play with the water amount than to mess with the flour and salt amounts.  

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

sitting and at what temperature?   was the preferment bubbly or stringy?  or both?

flynnboy's picture
flynnboy

I didn't use 'cup' measurements, I used ounces and did not sift. The preferment was left for 16 hours overnight in a cool kitchen. Don't know what the temp' was but very cool (this is Ireland !) I wouldn't have said it was 'bubbly, but it certainly had risen well,  I would say 'stringy'.

Maverick's picture
Maverick

Per Hamelman (Excerpt From: Bread: A Baker’s Book of Techniques and Recipes)

If necessary, correct the hydration by adding water or flour in small amounts. Finish mixing on second speed for about 21⁄2 minutes. The dough should be supple and moderately loose, with moderate gluten development.

ETA: At 69% it won't be stiff. But the flour called for should absorb quite a bit of water. I wonder if the "bread flour" called for is different that what you are using in Ireland.

Edit: Here is another quote from the recipe:

Since absorption levels vary considerably with whole-grain flour, check the
dough carefully once the ingredients are incorporated and make adjustments to hydration as necessary. 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

It should come together well when  the S&F's are finished.  it will really fim up over a couole of hours of gluten development.and then the bulk ferment

flynnboy's picture
flynnboy

Thanks for the advice.

Maverick's picture
Maverick

What flour are you using? 

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

European flour needs less hydration then North American flour. So like Maverick said... What flour are you using? 

Aha... Just read through all the comments and you mention you're from Ireland (London, here). Drop the hydration by at least 5%. See how that helps. 

flynnboy's picture
flynnboy

As I've mentioned a couple of times now, the recipe also uses ounces and I have measured by weight in ounces, surely more reliable than 'cups' ?

I actually added a little more flour to the main mix and I have now baked it and it looks and tastes well, complete with holes :-)

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

And dropped the hydration (or upped the flour - same difference). When following an American recipe just bear in mind these different flours. 

Bon Appetite. 

flynnboy's picture
flynnboy

I do have one criticism of my bake. The crust is too hard and perhaps a little thick. I baked for 45 mins @ 200. Have I cooked it too long and too low ? How can I improve it ?

 

Thanks again

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

I don't have the best of ovens. I bake on 190C because its a fan oven and you need to factor in that with a fan it'll be hotter. Fan ovens do dry out the crust quite fast and can inhibit oven spring so that is where steam comes in. But really difficult to introduce steam into some ovens and that is where Dutch Ovens come in. So I'm in the same predicament as you. To try and not dry the crust out too quickly I preheat the oven with fan and both top and bottom elements on. Then I turn the fan and top element off so all the heat comes from the bottom (just make sure you don't burn the underside of the bread) and I bake at around 200C. Then when the oven spring is done I'll turn the fan and top element back on for a good crust. I find that the crust softens quite quickly. By the time it's cool it's soft enough to cut. 

 

flynnboy's picture
flynnboy

Hmmm, interesting. I am sure it is the temp/time etc as you suggest. It is not easy getting steam into my oven. It has a fan but I don't always use it. I'll try what you suggest.

Thanks

flynnboy's picture
flynnboy

I am happy to report that today I baked a beautiful loaf, lovely soft bread with a beautiful thin but crisp crust, and 'tasty' ! Last time I obviously baked at too low temp' for too long resulting in a thick and hard crust. I also managed to get some steam in there by throwing in a small amount of water every 10 mins' or so. Really pleased !

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

Good feeling when it works. Nice!

Bon Appetite.