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Rye Bread Needs Rescuing

ntosaj's picture
ntosaj

Rye Bread Needs Rescuing

Hullo folks!

First time posting here about bread, I posted earlier about buying an Assistent or a Globe, the former won! Now I've made brioche quite happily with the Assistent as well as wholewheat, rye and white bread, however in making rye this time I seem to have hit a wall.

I decided to try a an old recipe that was given to me and figured I'd make use of some very precious rye flour (type 997) that I brought home when I visited my family outside of Berlin. The recipe calls for:

-300g rye (I only realized later on that a footnote specified type 1370)

-100g wholewheat flour

-100g white wheat flour

1/4L water

One yeast cake (lacking one, I used 2tsp. instant)

1.5 tsp. salt

Some sugar

and 25g. of shortening

 

I made the dough and kneaded for about 2 minutes by hand and 8 minutes in the assistent which left me with a rather smooth, if cannonball-like, mass of dough. I dropped it in my brotform and left it for the requisite four hours required only to be met with...well, very little rise at all! It looked all too much like a lightly kneaded wholewheat loaf, the kind you just know is going to come out of the oven gummy...

While any troubleshooting would be much appreciated (I fear that there might just be too much dark rye...) I was also wondering if it's possible to save it. Should I leave it overnight and see if it's risen any? Is there a way that I can make a white bread or something equally light and incorporate them together somehow mitigating my folly? Can I treat it as some kind of stiff starter?  

My focus right now is really to save my precious rye flour - and if possible have something to spread my freshly made apricot jam on!

 

At my disposal I have:

-A very sour rye starter that's been hiding in my fridge, made from the same flour

-AP flour

-Organic wholewheat bread flour

-Durum flour 

 

Thank you so much!

P.s. Posted it here as I really had no clue where it might fit best!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

or scale and put about 2 T of apple cider (need some acid) into the cup and then fill up to make 150 water (or forget it and use about 200ml buttermilk)

Mix ever so gently or fold in by hand into your dough because you have a 60% rye dough with 50% hydration.  Need to up the moisture to about 80% or it's going nowhere.

The dough will mix up to look more like wet cement, be very gentle with it and spoon gently into a buttered loaf pan.  When it rises about 1/4 get it into the oven.  If you can cover the pan with a second pan, do so to trap in some steam during the first part of the baking. 

 Oh golly, I just noticed your time...  about 10 hours ago.    what is it doing now?  Will soon run out of working time for rye dough.  

ntosaj's picture
ntosaj

Hi Mini Oven!

I kept it cold overnight in a bid to halt the fermentation. Should I still go through with what you suggested or do I just give it a baking now?

 

Thanks again!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Is it still pretty stiff?  Sorry, DQ, of course it's stiff, rye stiffens up in the cold.  

You still have to add moisture.  What have you got?  What condition is that starter?  

I think you can still save it if the dough is not falling apart right now.

ntosaj's picture
ntosaj

It rose by maybe ummmm 1/5? It's still pretty stiff.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

and work in some liquids.  it will be messy.  If you use the machine on low, add hot bathwater warm liquids.

ntosaj's picture
ntosaj

Just saw the starter message, it's cold but smells fine

ntosaj's picture
ntosaj

I'll give it a go! Should I add some yeast or starter or something to give it a boost?

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

no need, there is plenty there and rye should stretch slowly not fast or it will rip.  Too much yeast with rye is a common mistake.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

fruit from the Wachau!    

You want your rye paste dough to be soft but not runny.   Use wet hands to shape it and a wet scraper or spatula to shape the dough into a nice dome in the pan.  Anything you scrape off your hands will stick to the loaf so just pile it on.  :)

Mini

ntosaj's picture
ntosaj

It's so nice! I recently joined a fruit picking non-profit here in Toronto and we picked 85lbs of apricots in two hours! It's definitely Wachau-reminiscent ;)

Alright I'll go handle it a bit. You mentioned a greased loaf pan, does that mean I should leave my beloved brotform out of the equation?

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

too slopy.  Flour it well and stand by,  I would turn on the oven right after you put it into the form.  Maybe turn back the water a little bit to 75% hydration.  Could only be 20 to 30 min in the form before baking.  We will see.  :)

ntosaj's picture
ntosaj

So very simply then my next steps should be to let it rise in bowl for a certain period then? A few hours? And then shift it to the brotform briefly for proofing?

ntosaj's picture
ntosaj

Oh the answer was right there! I've been missing the first line of everything that's in the title. Sorry!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

late stage, it might work but for flavour and sour effect only.  Do not bulk rise if you do and go straight into a final proof rise. (like planned) The more mature, the better.  It does have a risk factor, with it come a ton of extra breaking down enzymes.  Stir gently but effectively and only as much as needed.  

ntosaj's picture
ntosaj

So if I go directly to the proof rise, how long should I leave it before baking? (We most definitely have concrete!)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

already set up, like sidewalks and walls. (my hubby is constantly correcting me)   Don't want to drive into it.  Cement is the wet stuff if water is added.  Can be shaped and pushed around.  Comes in a bag.  I bet the cement folks have special names for stages going from powdered to wet cement.  Maybe not.  Dry cement and wet cement.  Once set, concrete.

Enough of that.  

You certainly don't want the dough to double in bulk for a proof, will be lucky to get half that so just under that amount should be right, let the oven raise and set the loaf higher.

ntosaj's picture
ntosaj

Hahahaha!

Alright, I'll start the oven up and cross my fingers!

ntosaj's picture
ntosaj

Seems to be somewhat edible, though clearly no pièce de résistance haha

Thanks again for your help!!!

hanseata's picture
hanseata

is the darker of the two medium German rye types (the other is 1150). Using whole rye flour instead will give you a very different bread. I learned about the differences only after I came to the US, and started baking my own bread 

(http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20765/hearty-rye-and-tricky-recipe). 

At first I tried emulating these rye types with a mix of white and whole rye, but it isn't the same, so I finally purchased American medium rye (NYBakers, King Arthur or Honeyville carry it). It works just fine for both rye types (the difference is not that dramatic).

Karin

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

for feeding the rye starter or even crumble a few slices into the liquids of the next loaf.  Cut and save a few frozen slices just for this purpose.  I am amazed how much flavour old bread adds to new bread.  (no mouldy bread, please)   :)

Mini

ntosaj's picture
ntosaj

I hadn't heard about using crumbs, will do! Thanks again :)