Need help with Kitchenaid Artisan
I have had this machine for many years. I cannot make a single loaf of bread with it. I don't know what I'm doing wrong unless you have to make more than one loaf? I have searched many videos online, tried many different ways people do it, and I get so frustrated, I want to give it away. the last time I made a loaf it looked perfect and I had thought I did it, I was so excited, then we cut into it, there was a massive air hole type of thing all the way down the top of the load. I cannot say how frustrated I am with this machine and ready to get rid of it. I have tried many different recipes, nothing works. is there anything anyone can say to help me with this? I notice that it mostly just goes around the bowl in a circle. I don't really think thats kneading? I have a sunbeam heritage series stand mixer that does a better job than this but I want this to work on the artisan. I paid all that money for it and it should work, its suppose to work, any help would be greatly appreciated. thank you. I am new to this site, so I"m not sure how everything works.
One is the dough hook going round the bowl, the 2nd is the dough hook rotating as it goes round the bowl. If the dough hook is going round the bowl, but not rotating itself then it's broken, but if its not broken and you're in the UK and want to get rid of it, send it to me :-)
Holes in baked bread is usually caused by poor shaping techniques.
Give us more information about your bread making process - e.g. typically, using a stand mixer, I'd use it to mix the flour, water, salt, yeast, then leave it covered for an hour or so, then tip it out of the bowl, de-gas it then shape it into whatever I'm making, cover it and let it prove then bake it. How does your process compare?
-Gordon
thanks for replying, you make it sound so easy. Thing is that Im not a stranger to making bread, started by hand when I was 16 and I"m not 59. I haven't had a kitchenaid before this and I have struggled with it but am determined to make it work for dough. I have the sunbeam heritage mixer also, and it does the dough just fine, light and fluffy and so I wouldn't think it could be me as the statement below me here has stated. I have never had it come out bad with the sunbeam, so it can't be me, it must be a different way of doing it in this mixer I think. I spent so much for it, I WANT to make it work. I would like one machine that does it all, and the sunbeam won't handle heavy cookie dough, that HAS to be done in the kitchenaid. But I want to make this work in this machine. its a goal I have and I have searched the internet high and low different recipes, different way of doing it. Is there one correct way? or as I thought, maybe theres not enough dough to get kneaded with one loaf, maybe I need to do two? thats something I have thought but never tried. so I just wondered if theres advice or a recipe for regular white bread that someone could say they have used with success and the way of doing it? thanks for your replying, i'm not in the UK But I have packed this machine away many times in a giving up routine and then gotten it back out and tried again!!
Check out the no knead breads.
Using Ken Forkish method, the only tools you need are a scale, a bucket, and your hands.
I love my two Kitchenaids, but they are not used for bread. (Pasta, cinnamon rolls, biscotti, etc)
Don't think it's the mixer!.
your bread in detail to determine where the problem is. I have a Kitchenaid and use it all the time for bread, etc. and never had a problem. My method, when using my Kitchenaid, below:
Bread gets kneaded by the dough hook until smooth and pulling away from the sides, then turned out onto a flat surface for more hand kneading. It is then put in an oiled container and proofed for a certain amount of time....usually till double in bulk, punched down, shape and/or put into a container for the final proof which depending on the temperature could be as little as 30 minutes to up to 2 hours. It being summer I err on the side of less time....things tend to happen faster. I also use the finger poke test. Then I bake.
Hope this helps.
Wendy
The KitchenAid Artisan mixers (with tilting head) come with a "C" type dough hook, which is inferior to the spiral hooks that comes on the models equipped with bowl lift mechanisms. Unfortunately, KA tilting head mixers cannot be retrofitted with a spiral hook. It is possible to effectively knead dough in a tilting head KA mixer, but the mixer may have to be stopped periodically and the dough re-positioned to get uniform kneading.
Bob
There are a couple of things you can try. As Bob S. suggested, stop periodically to push the dough down as it tends to climb the hook. You might try speeding it up a bit and see if it flings the dough away from the hook better. You can also try oiling the hook so that the dough doesn't stick to it so much. You can also determine whether the dough is sufficiently kneaded by using the window pane test.
thank you all for your ideas. I can't believe how quickly people are replying and trying to help. I appreciate it so much. can you tell me how long you knead and if one or two loaves are done at one time? I tried again tonight and it looked great when I took it out, light and fluffy, but when it was baking, one side on the top collapsed. what would cause that? if its not one thing its another. I just don't understand what I'm doing or the machine is doing. thanks to everyone here for taking the time.. I know how precious time is!
Deb, are you familiar with the windowpane test. After you think the dough has been kneaded enough, you pinch off a small piece and stretch it out gently to see if it will form a windowpane. This is for pizza, but has some great photos http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/09/technique-the-windowpane-test-for-pizza-dough.html
If you are getting a good windowpane ( and it doesn't have to be as great as the one in the above link, then the problem is not the mixer. The first loaf sounded like a flying crust https://www.flickr.com/photos/spacekadet/4946985449
if so, check out this link http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/12574/flying-crust-yet-again
Not sure about the collapsing, but it could be overproofed. While you may have made the same dough with the same timing with the Sunbeam, it is possible, though there are a lot of other possibilities, that using the KA got the dough warmer, which makes it proof faster.
Hi Barry
You gave me alot of links and good advice to check out. Thank you. I had never heard of a flying crust. but yes, thats what is was and I will check that out further. I do know about the window pane test yes, but in the old days we didn't call it that. I know what you mean, can you tell me how long you knead the dough in the machine? I wonder if I"m over kneading as I don't realize just how powerful the kitchenaid is compared to my sunbeam. I made a sunbeam loaf and then the kitchenaid loaf and everything was the same, except I actually proofed the sunbeam a little longer because I did that first. The kitchenaid collapsed on the side after I started baking, and the sunbeam was again fine. the kitchenaid one was fine till it started baking. it just baffles the heck out of me, I have to say. You mentioned the kitchenaid could make it warmer which is what makes me wonder if its kneading too long and that I don't understand the power. I can't thank you and everyone here enough trying to help me, a perfect stranger. I appreciate it so much and I will keep trying
To make sure we understand your problem correctly, you have a big air pocket inside your finished loaves? I would be surprised if this couldn't be gotten rid of with a little hand kneading.
Bob S. is spot-on about the spiral dough hook. It's unfortunate that there is not a spiral dough hook available for the Artisan mixers. I have one and am very satisfied with it.
Deb, I remember your Sunbeam Heritage, I bought one for my mom a long time ago and she loved it. My recollection was that it used 2 hooks to beat the dough. The KA uses just the one hook, but moves in a planetary motion, so it is a different style of kneading, and it is hard to compare the one to the other. I seriously doubt you are overkneading it in the KA. You can be sure by checking every few minutes and stop when you get a windowpane, though many suggest you stop well before that and finish with stretch and folds. Another wild guess is that due to the different types of kneading, your loaf may be easier to form with the Sunbeam, and may need more work in forming with the KA. I don't know your recipe, but if you post it here, someone who has a KA can probably give you a time estimate. I don't want to drive you crazy looking at different solutions and different youtubes- which can drag you in different directions, but consider shortening your kneading time and using stretch and folds after you are done kneading. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnxiawZoL4A&index=2&list=PL02A67F155E9A6668 this is an introduction to that concept. While there are different suggestions from different people, you might want to try 4 sets of stretches, 20 minutes between each set, after you knead, then bulk ferment, then shape, then proof, then bake.
Oh you aren't driving me nuts. I don't mind the learning at all. I have learned alot already. It seems alot harder then when I did it by hand many moons ago. Yes, the sunbeam has two dough hooks or blades, whatever you call them. You know if I didn't pay so much money for this kitchenaid thinking it would be better for everything, I think I would just let it go, but its also a matter of the world seems to love this thing and why can't I do it to? I;m very stubborn it seems. I get very frustrated and put the thing in the back room for awhile and then after a time, I try again. so I will look at these videso and I don't mind that at all. I just wonder if I will ever get it..thank you so much for trying to help, I really appreciate it.
Deb, you will get it. You have a lot of practices that have worked before, the only thing is figuring out which of those practices have to be changed to use the KA. Don't get too frustrated, there are many people that think the KA is the best at everything and others that think it is a very good all around mixer, for cakes, cookies and other mixing, but is not the best at kneading dough.
I checked out those video link you sent me and it was fantastic. I learned alot. I wonder know if I'm handling it to rough in trying to expel the air, they did it lightly. so after viewing that, I"m trying again this morning. I used the regular paddle for a little while and then added more flour and went to the dough hook. Its rising now in the pan and looks okay, but it did before too the other night and then it collapsed when I baked it. It is a frustration, though I"m trying not to. I know what others have said too about the artisan not being good for dough, but then you find others that love it and say never had a problem. Others have said the spiral dough hook is better. I don't really know what to think on what everyone else is thinking. I should have probably not spent the money and just used the sunbeam as everything turns out for me in there, everything. I have a chocolate cake recipe that I always did in the sunbeam, I tried it in the aritsan once and the last step is a cup of boiling water, its a thin batter but that artisan slinged it all over the kitchen, me and also itself. Even the slowest speed was too fast for that. Never happened in the sunbeam, However since i'm older, the artisan does better at heavy dough because of shoulder problems, I don't have the strength to mix in it by hand. But I have to justify this huge amount of money I paid for it. so we will see what happens with this loaf... thank you very much, I trudge on!
I had a KA Artisan that was way underpowered for bread making. As others have already noted the dough hook for those mixers is inferior to the spiral hooks for the larger models. If I tried using it for 67% hydration sourdough the darn thing would moan and groan and get super hot after only three minutes of just preliminary mixing of ingredients on Speed 1. I bought a KA 610 lift stand mixer and all is good. 6 QT capacity and a real dough hook. It barely breaks a sweat. I gave the Artisan away to a neighbor, telling him it was good for cookies and cakes and light pizza doughs but don't try heavy bread dough.
I love to hear what others are saying about this, I have heard that about the spiral dough hook before too. I don't do anything fancy as far as doughs, I make regular white bread, light wheat, pizza dough, and sweet dough for like cinnamon buns. I would think this aritsan should be enough for that but I'm wondering. I have had all kinds of help on this site, its amazing.. I can't thank everyone enough.. theres just my husband and myself now, all the kids are grown and gone, and so I only tend to make smaller quantities of dough and I wondered if it wasn't enough for the mixer, like you had to do two loaves at once you know? I"m only doing one, maybe it couln't knead it enough, that sort of thing? I am concerned about the jumping of the head and the struggling of the mixer, I tend to have my hand on it thinking it would break. I haven't had alot of confidence in that either. Thank you for your thoughts and help, any words of widsom I will take! I wonder how many people like the artisan versus the 6 quart one you have? thats a curious question