The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Fresh ground whole wheat biscuit recipe wanted.

snielsen's picture
snielsen

Fresh ground whole wheat biscuit recipe wanted.

I very recently bought a bunch of cook books, bread books and ingredients and a model #99 Grain Maker grain mill.  I have tried creating a few different things so far.  Seems like one day things work well, then the next day, while using the same recipe, things turn out bad.  This is OK, because I figure more experience will help.

I have not been able to make any biscuit that I would eat, yet.  I am hoping that one of you will have some advice and feel like sharing it.  I have hard white wheat, rye, spelt, and a bunch of other unusual grains.  

Please help.

Thanks,

Steve

Eigebroetli's picture
Eigebroetli

Hi Steve! 

I'm sorry for this stupid question, yet the English term "biscuit" may refer to half a dozen words in my language. So which one did you mean? Bread like things or french biscuits or cookies? What was wrong with the biscuits you've tried?

If you're looking for some kind of cookies I'll recommend spelt, chocolate, orange. I love them! Combine 180 g butter with 120 g sugar, the peel of 1 orange and 100-200 g really dark grounded chocolate (depends on what amount of chocolate you're used to). Mix until its creamy and significantly increased its volume. Carfully add 1 egg and make sure it has room temperature. Mix again until you get an airy mass. Now carfully add 200 g whole grain spelt. It doesn't matter if it isn't finely grounded. Do not beat or kneat the dough anymore, or it won't get crispy. Add some egg or orangejuice if necessary (this depends on the size of the first egg and how long you mixed it). Roll the dough to approximately 5mm. Cut it in diamonds (rhombus) and place them on some kind of baking paper or an oiled plate. Bake at 220°C for 8-10 minutes until the bottom of the cookies is evenly baked (not brown, though). Decorate the cookies with chocolate icing (not the sweet stuff, just melted dark chocolate combined with some coconutoil) and orange peel. 

Have fun with your new gadget! 

Alice

snielsen's picture
snielsen

Awesome! 

I don't think that I've ever had a cookie/biscuit made this was before.  Sounds terrific.

The biscuit that I was asking about above is the old fashioned American kind where you combine 2.5 cups ww flour, .5 cup lard or other solid type shortning, 1 cup butter milk, 1 tsp baking powder and 1 tsp salt.  Mix flour and lard together unti pea sized balls of dough forms, then mix in the butter milk.  Cover it and let it sit for several hours to cure and rise.  Then preheat e oven to 450 degrees f.   Mix the other ingeredients in.  Spoon ice cream scoop size balls of dough onto baking mat or roll out to .5" to .75" thick, cut into 3" roundsand place on baking mat, then bake at 450 degrees for 10 to 15 minutes.

The problem I am having is that my biscuits end up flat, hard, tasteless lumps instead of hot, soft, light, fluffy biscuits.  I have only tried this twice, and same result both times.  If I use regular bag flour from the store, this recipe works out great.  I don't know what I need to alter in the recipe to make great biscuits.

 

thanks,

Steve

 

isand66's picture
isand66

I would suggest you add more liquid as fresh ground  flour will absorb much more liquid than store bought white flour.  I would also mix in some of the store flour with the fresh spelt and/or whole wheat and do a combo at first and slowly work your way up to all freshly ground flour.  Make sure you do not over-mix the dough as that is the main reason why you will end up with hockey pucks.

Peter Reinhart's book "Whole Grain Breads" I believe as a biscuit recipe in it that is supposed to be good.  I have not actually tried it as I'm not a big biscuit maker.

Let me know if this helps.

snielsen's picture
snielsen

Hi isand66,

I tried a 1 cup version of my recipe but added some spelt in with the hard white wheat, I don't currently have any store flour to add, and I increased the liquid a little bit.  I weighed the flour after it was milled too, instead of whole berries before grinding it.  They turned out pretty good, added some butter and honey to them and we chomped.  I am going to use another recipe tonight (given below in a reply).  That one should be very good.

Thanks again for your suggestion,

steve

snielsen's picture
snielsen

I hadn't seen anything in Reinharts 'whole grain breads' book, about biscuits.  I have several of his books. I had to go in there and look again, and still couldn't find anything about biscuits.  I went and found a couple other books that were specifically written about using fresh ground whole grain and contains biscuit recipies too.

My 14 y.o. son is Autistic and has to eat a very restrictive specific carbo diet.  Whole grains are one of the things that he can eat and biscuits are one of his favorites.

Thanks,

Steve

isand66's picture
isand66

Sorry about that..it is actually in his artisan Bread every day and it's not a whole grain recipe.

charbono's picture
charbono

That's a very odd biscuit recipe.  I would recommend the following changes:

 

a.  If you're using hard spring wheat, don't.  Use winter wheat or, preferably, soft wheat.

b.  If you're not using a scale, make sure not to pack the flour into the cup. 

c.  If you want to use just baking powder (no soda), you need more.  Figure 1 tsp per cup of flour.  Use a quality double-acting powder, such as Bob's Red or Argo.

d.  Mix the baking powder and salt into the flour before cutting in the fat.

e.  After mixing in the buttermilk, knead very little.

f.  Since you're not using yeast, there should be no rising or proofing time.  Bake immediately after placing the cut out dough in the pan.

 

 

snielsen's picture
snielsen

Hi,

The wheat I have is Non-GMO Project Verified Hard White Wheat Berries, 100% Non-Irradiated, Certified Kosher Parve, USA Grown, ID Preserved (they tell the field it grew in), by Palouse.  It doesn't mention winter or spring on their site.  I also have some hard white that came with the grain mill.

Might you know what kind of baking this hard white wheat will be ok for, if not biscuits?  I'm not against buying more wheat and making sure that it is a certain type.  I've just gotten started with all of this stuff.  Also, am just getting into fermenting ( I bought books & equipment ) and a large kumbacha brewing kit.  I've made a 5 gallon batch of my own kraut which turned out super fantastic and a 3 gallon batch of kumbacha tea which is ok, kind of a slight vinegarness to it though. 

I've made kimchi a bunch of times, and happen to enjoy my own much better than I do the bottles bought from an asian market.  That stuff is like candy with a kick to me.  

My son also enjoys our home made gingerale.  I use honey instead of sugar because it's the only sweetener he can eat.  I make him 6 large ceramic capped bottles a week.  Most of it is drank when he takes his daily medications.  He also has a soda stream that we use to carbonate water with, then we add different fresh ingrediants to make sparkling flavored teas, again sweetened with honey.

Thanks,

Steve

charbono's picture
charbono

The Palouse Brand site states that they sell hard spring wheat.  The grain from Grainmaker is probably also spring wheat, since it is in Montana.  Your wheat should be good for any yeasted bread.

 

If you are not using a scale and are experiencing inconsistent results, it's understandable.  Here's a way to get consistent volumetric flour measurements:  Stir or fluff the flour in the bag.  Using a large spoon,  lift the flour from the bag into the cup till overflowing.  Give the cup one modest tap with the spoon.  Level off with a straight edge.  The amount of flour will probably be around 127 grams.

 

I hope you will report your results with the Grainmaker.  Although I already have a mill, I've thought of buying a Grainmaker, especially for maize.

 

 

 

snielsen's picture
snielsen

Your info is very helpful.  My son is currently milling another 1 cup batch of flour to make a test run of your biscuit info.  He has also picked out the tea he wants with your biscuits.  The pot and cups are all set, the kettle is set to 190 degrees and waiting for the biscuits to go in the oven.  It won't be long and we will have our afternoon snack.

Thanks,

Steve

snielsen's picture
snielsen

Thank you so much.  I didn't catch the hard spring part of their description.  That's fantastic.  

I have a scale, I didn't consider using it to measure a cup of flour.  What I actually did was measure out a 2.5 cups of wheat berries, dump them in the hopper and grind away.  The resulting flour is what I used for a recipe. I never even checked how mch flour resulted.  

I have a vitamix mixer with both a wet container for blending and a dry container for grinding.  I never liked the dry grinder much.  I don't think that it turns out perfect flour.  I also have the grinding attachment for my kitchen aid stand mixer.  It works OK, but not great, unless you run it through multiple times.  The Grain Maker mill is super fantastic.  I really am impressed with the results it provides.  I had my mill personalized with engraving, and bought it with the cherry wood cover and the extra clamp.  It all works really well.  I have been considering sending off for their motor that attaches.  Using the motor would make grinding that much easier.

I will be making a batch of biscuits in a little while, using your helpful information.  I imagine that they will turn out much better.  I will also use my scale and weigh the flour after it is ground, makine sure to use 127 grams per cup.

Thank you so much for your help.

Steve

 

bread_to_be's picture
bread_to_be

Whole Wheat Southern Biscuits.

-------------------------------------------

2 cups whole wheat flour, divided
2 teaspoons baking powder
1⁄4 teaspoon baking soda
1⁄2 teaspoon salt
6 tablespoons cold butter, cut into small pieces
3⁄4 cup buttermilk
2 tablespoons buttermilk (plus more if needed)

Directions:

Preheat oven to 450°F Combine 1 3/4 cups flour, baking powder, baking soda and salt in a medium bowl; whisk together.

Add butter, toss with your fingers to coat with flour, and rapidly pinch and fluff butter into flour with your fingertips to make small flakes. Work quickly to keep butter firm.

Add buttermilk; stir well with a fork until the dough gathers into one large lump. Drizzle in additional droplets of buttermilk if necessary.

Scrape dough onto a flat surface sprinkled with remaining 1/4 cup flour. Roll dough to coat with flour, then pat out into a rough rectangle about 1/2-inch-thick and fold it in thirds.

Repeat the patting and folding. Pat dough into a thickness of 1 inch. Dip a 2-inch round cutter into flour and stamp out biscuits, coating the cutter with flour before each stamping. Place biscuits, top sides up, on a heavy ungreased baking sheet about 1 inch apart.

Bake 10 to 12 minutes, until biscuits are golden brown.

Makes 12 biscuits.

snielsen's picture
snielsen

Awesome!

 

Thanks,

Steve

snielsen's picture
snielsen

This recipe has been wonderful.  My whole family enjoys these biscuits, and they are quick to make.  I make a 1 cup of ground soft white wheat batch each time I want biscuits.  It doesn't take long to grind 127 grams of wheat in my Grainmaker, then mix the other dry ingredients together.  When that is all set, I mix the wet stuff with the dry stuff just until it is all mixes together, not mixing any further than needed.  I then scoop and shape the biscuits one at a time in a biscuit mold, similar results as rolling and cutting but with even less handling.  This makes a half dozen biscuits, then into a 450 degree oven for 11 minutes.  They come out wonderful.  We enjoy home made jelly or honey on them with a little butter.  Good stuff.  

Thanks bread_to_be for this recipe.  It worked out great!

Steve

snielsen's picture
snielsen

Hey folks.  Gave it a shot tonight, weighed everything, followed a recipe.  Tasted good but the fluffiness didn't come up as much as I hoped.  I will get the soft spring flower and try again.

I have made two different batches today.  Both were good but not great.  I will let you know how it turns out after I get the soft spring wheat.  In the mean time, I have a bunch of great bread flour to play with.

Thanks for everything.  

Steve

charbono's picture
charbono

If you must use the hard spring wheat for now, try adding a little more water to the above recipe.  That wheat is thirsty.  It will never be as high and fluffy as when using refined flour. 

Technique is very important with biscuits.  Don't over-work the dough.  One tip is to flip the cut-out before placing it on the sheet.  For higher biscuits, place them on the pan with edges touching.

I think most, if not all, soft wheat is winter, but it shouldn't matter.

 

snielsen's picture
snielsen

Thank you so much.  Very good info today.  The biscuits are better now than they were, and after the correct grain, I bet they will be fantastic.

Steve

snielsen's picture
snielsen

I purchased 2 - 5 pound bags of soft white wheat from Palouse.  I am following it via tracking number, and will have it soon.  Can hardly wait.

steve

isand66's picture
isand66

The soft white wheat will work much better than the other grains you were using.  It is very close to pastry flour when ground up and I think you are going to like it.  Look forward to hearing about your results.

Ian