The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Mild Sourdough

YoungBoy's picture
YoungBoy

Mild Sourdough

Hello. I've been coming here for awhile to look for bread advice but this is my first time posting. For that I thank you all.

I'm new to Sourdough. I just baked these two loaves of Tartine Country Bread. The sour taste was a bit mild. It's there, but I have to search for it. I think it's because I started my starter 9 days ago and only fed it once a day during that time. If I fed my starter twice a day for 2 weeks, say, do you think it would develop a more pronounced sour taste?

Thank you.

Dave's picture
Dave

Beautiful loaves and nice scoring.

What is your starter recipe??

Typically starters don't have much to do with how sour your loaf will be. It's just a natural leavening agent. Sourness  is more dependent on a longer fermentation process, and the different grains that you are using. Like say a cold retard in a fridge for 24 hours will bring out a lot more flavor than a ferment at room temperature for 4 hours. With the longer fermenting recipes a lot less starter is used to be able to retard longer.

Although when I switched over to a 100% stone ground whole grain rye starter, I do notice a bit more pronounced flavor to my bread. But I don't know if I would call it more sour or not. And it depends on my recipe and how much starter I'm using.

"If I fed my starter twice a day for 2 weeks", would not really benefit it in any way. Feeding that much typically only happens when you are creating a starter.

For me, my starter is awesome and strong. So when I'm ready to bake I will take my starter out of the fridge, feed it and let it sit out at room temp for 12 hours, depending on the season. Winter is 12 hours, summer will be about 6 hours. Sometimes I don't bake for about 2 weeks, cause of my job. I still don't feed my starter at all in between that time. Even after 2 weeks of not feeding my starter and then feeding once when I'm ready to bake, my starter is rockin and ready to go.

It's a matter of really getting to know your starter and how it works.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

 

YoungBoy's picture
YoungBoy

Thanks for that.

It's funny, with my romanticizing Sourdough I overlooked a pretty basic premise of baking... time is flavor. I also relied on a recipe instead of my instinct, I think. Next time i'll let the yeast do their thing (having only fermented for 4 hours for these). 

My starter is 200g, 1:1 WW and water. After a day of fermenting it's reduced by about 75% then 50g of both are added back .It's virile, and I've got it in my fridge right now. Maybe i'll gift these loaves and make a few more.

Thaks.

PetraR's picture
PetraR

Also, a lower hydration starter will promote more sour in your bread:)

I am using a 50% hydration starter when I want a much more sour bread.

I use a 80% hydration dough for milder but still sour bread.

So, not only does the fermentation time plays a part but also the hydration of your starter to begin with:)

I keep mine , right now , at the counter since I am baking daily, so it makes sense.

 

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

Really lovely loaves. Sour or not you must be pleased. There are some things you can do to promote sourness...

Decrease the amount of starter and increase the fermentation time

Keep the same amount of starter, according to the recipe, and retard the dough in the fridge

Incorporate more whole grains

I find the starter itself, the way its kept and fed, doesn't have that much effect. With my own experience its how I use it within the actual dough that promotes the final taste. But with sourdough everyone has their own experiences and doesn't mean to say you'll find the same thing. 

For example, keeping your starter in the fridge promotes a more bacterial starter which will make it more sour. But then when you use it at warmer temperatures within the dough you'll just be encouraging a quicker fermentation. Which will bring out a different flavour anyways. But as with sourdough its your own experience that counts so take all the advice, experiment, and see what works for you. 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

First off a 9 day old starter is very young.  The taste and flavor will improve greatly as time goes on.  The yeast do not make a bread sour but the LAB do.  The yeast create their own complex flavors but sour is not one of them.  Thirdly and most important.  Tartine bread is designed to be the least sour possible when finished.  SFSD isn't like it used to be in the 60's and early 70's and is much less sour than it used to be.  People just don't like sour bread and it is harder to sell so this bread is designed to be the less sour from starter maintenance and feeding to the bread making itself at room temperatures. where the LAB to yeast reproduction ratios for the bread are kept to as close to 1 to 1 as you can get.

IF you want more sour taste all you have to do is promote the LAB reproduction rates over the yeast in your SD culture and in your bread making.  US whole grain rye for your starter feedings. and make it a stiff starter 66% hydration is what I use.  Don't things at room temperature unless you have to like gluten development.   LAB prefer 36 F or 92 F where yeast prefer 68-74 F.  So if you want more sour retard your starter, levain and dough at 36 F and if you have a proofer do the final prof at 92 F.  You will quickly get the sour you need

Also, when I build a levain from a bit of stiff starter, I increase the hydration to 100% since LAB love the wet but then retard the finished 3 stage levain for 1-2 days in the fridge before warming and using in the dough.

I'm pretty sure once your SD culture is mature and you start doing some bulk ferment and final proofing in the fridge (or at 92 F for final proof) you will get the sour taste you are looking for.

Happy SD baking 

 

YoungBoy's picture
YoungBoy

Advice. I'll take it all into consideration and keep experimenting. The hole structure, the crust... it's all good. I'm looking for that typical sour taste, though. 

 

Thanks.

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

Make enough dough, with same recipe, for two breads. After bulk fermentation divide into two and do the following...

1st dough, shape, final proof at room temperature and bake. 

2nd dough, shape (leave out for 20min) then cover with plastic bag and retard overnight in the fridge. Bake straight from the fridge. 

Two breads, from same dough, different taste. 

Compare and contrast. 

YoungBoy's picture
YoungBoy

doing just that. I definitely notice the difference in slow fermented vs. ordinary fermenting in my ordinary bread making.

jrenee54's picture
jrenee54

I've read that a small amount of starter will require a longer rise period and that results in a more sour flavor.  I use 1/3 cup and allow a 8-12 hour rise then shape and allow to rise again 6-8 hours.  Plus your starter is young and will probably develop more flavor as it ages.  I'm still learning, too….Pretty loaves!

YoungBoy's picture
YoungBoy


I've finally had the time to do another couple loaves. Well, one is still getting up to room temperature, but it will be baking shortly. 

I followed a few of the suggestions. One thing I noticed is that, despite fermenting at room temperature, just keeping the starter stiff developed a more pronounced sour taste. I also have a loaf that was retarded over night, so we'll see how that turns out. The picture is probably just a tad unnecessary (can't really see sour now, can we?) But I am proud of these two :).

 

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

Especially when they look that good. Nice work. Let us know how they taste. 

Bon appetite.