April 10, 2015 - 11:26am
Kneading rye dough by hand?
Hello,
Planning to bake my first high percentage rye bread this weekend and got a question about mixing/kneading rye dough - 90% Rye Sourdough from Hamelman's Bread. By reading around a bit, it seems like resulting dough will be very watery (paste-like) and I was wondering what is the best way to knead it? I usually slap and fold my dough (French kneading?), but with paste-like dough that would be out of the question. Can I put it in 12qt bowl and do some stretch and fold? Can this dough even be stretched or is it more akin to picking up the sides of the dough and folding over the center?
Also, can I proof shaped loafs in the bannetons like standard dough or is rye dough too sticky to risk doing that?
Thank You!
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Well, not knowing the recipe you're using, my bet is that you're just going to mix it.
"Knead" suggests to me that something is fighting you back. If your dough is a paste like you mention (as my Danish rye is), "stretch and fold" becomes "pull off a glob and put that glob on top of the glob you pulled it from".
As far as the bannetons, that's beyond my experience, but my rye would never come out of a banneton in anything resembling a loaf.
Should be made like a cake. Mix flour, water, salt and yeast. Form batter. Flatten out. And go straight into final proofing.
Can't be done in a banneton. A loaf tin would be best. After smoothing over sprinkle with flour. When it looks like a road map then ready to bake.
Sometimes called a Danish Dough Whisk too.
Typical hydrations are > 90% it's not really kneadable.
I regularly make rye loaves in bannetons - my "figgy rye" is made that way. Mix, prove overnight in the fridge in the banneton inside a poly bag, turn out in the morning and right into the oven. I'm making Borodinski tomorrow which is currently in the fridge in tins, else I'd take photos... Use lots and flour to dust the banneton - they rarely stick (and never on a quick rise with some yeast added)
-Gordon
I would have thought it'd end up a sticky mess. But obviously it can be done. Many people shy away from rye but when you know how to handle it it's easier than normal bread.
If its the 90% Sourdough Rye on pg. 218 the recipe is listed as 78% hydration and doesn't mention putting in a banneton, only shaping it round. Stretch & fold should work in the bucket...wet your hands so it doesn't stick. It looks like it will be fairly wet but manageable. Bulk fermentation is only 10-20 mins since all of the fermentation takes place in the 3 stage starter. It will probably be a round lump on your baking sheet. I'd be interested to hear about your final product. If it were me, I'd probably chose to use the yeast first time through since I'm a lightweight, still somewhat of a novice and like a sure thing.
And I'm gaining some experience because I've been baking like a fiend.
Hope this helps.
Wendy
For pointing me in the right direction. I have also just taken a look.
My advice was for 100% rye where a 90%+ hydration is best and method is how I described.
However this recipe is different. For one, there has been added some high gluten flour. There are also a few stages of ripening. It's not 90% hydration rye. Rather 90% rye bread. I misunderstood.
More like soft modelling clay or hamburger meat depending on chunkiness of ingredients. Do use lightly wet or moistened fingers/hands and tools for handling. A wet scraper or spatula works wonders for shaping the final loaf dough if using a tin. Just glide along the surface pushing the dough into shape. :) have fun!