February 25, 2015 - 6:00am
Sourdough collapsing
I've been having some problems with my sourdough bread collapsing out of the banneton and before going into the oven. I've tried to address the problem by proofing less but it still seems to happen. I've added some photos of my latest bake.
I'm getting good oven spring which seems to defy the overproofing explanation and the crumb seems uneven, denser in the middle bottom, which again makes me think I'm underproofing. Any ideas?
Here's the process I followed for the pictured loaf,
495g Strong White Flour
330g Water
165g Wholemeal Sourdough @ 100%
10g Salt
30 minute autolyse (water, sourdough and flour)
salt and short 3-4 minute knead
3 S+F's @ 20 minutes
shape
proof ~3 hours
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While I'm still very much a sourdough newbie, the first thing I notice is that the recipe seems to have no bulk ferment period. So, I can't help wondering if this is causing or at least contributing to you results.
3x stretch and folds every twenty minutes before final proofing. That's a bulk fermentation for 1 hour. And then there will be a longer final proofing. Not the usual way. It's there but I think will need a longer bulk fermentation. I think incorporating a 4th stretch and fold and then resting for a further 1.5 - 2 hours would be beneficial.
It's not something I had considered but I will give it a try if someone could suggest how to include a long bulk ferment into my recipe? I tried refrigerating after shaping one time but after 10 hours I had overproofed dough that I had to quickly bake straight out of the fridge.
for sourdough. Usually final proofing (=shaping) should be a lot shorter than the bulk ferment. If you want to do a long refrigerated bulk ferment, try doing S&F every 30 min. for 2 hours after the Autolyse. Then throw into fridge (well covered to avoid drying out) for at least 20 hours. Take out of fridge, let warm up to room temp(up to 1 hour) and shape + final proof 30-60 min. Bake preferably on stone and use steam during first 10-15 minutes. Works for me every time.
is under fermented. The collapsing could be due to not enough strength built up which comes from mixing, folding, and fermentation.
If you'd like to continue with the direct process (mix, shape bake all in one day) I'd suggest extending your bulk ferment to 2:30 hours (this is assuming your dough/ambient temp is in the mid to upper 70's. Then preshape, rest, shape. Then the final proof should be in or around 1:30-2:00 (watch the dough).
Hope this is helpful.
Josh
I think the most likely problem is the lack of a bulk rise. If that doesn't work you might want to lower the water a bit. I've over-hydrated a few times and, despite the bulk rise, my dough went flat when I got it out of the bonneton.
That looks wonderful!
Thanks for the advice everyone. I will try a much longer bulk fermentation next time.
I assume I must avoid degassing much during shaping then if the final proof should only be 1-2 hours? It makes sense now that my dough is collapsing when I'm allowing it to double in the banneton!
ri_us - thank you! I was quite pleased with it - it was my first attempt at a chequered pattern.
I guess you missed the steop of bulk fermenting and so only 3 hours is not long enough to give it strength.
Saying that, when I am in a hurry I knead my bread , put it in the loaf tin and let it bulk ferment without degasing it and letting it rise a second time.
I get good results but it will be fermenting for about 8 hours in the loaf tin.
But I do this only when I am in a hurry, other than that it is kneading, bulk fermenting, degasing , finall proof and baking.
The correct bulk fermentation time depends on temperature. The times I'm using at the moment:
9 to 10 hours at ~56 degrees. This was a success for me.
5 hours for 65 degrees. This also succeeds.
I would expect to be at ~3.5 hours at 70 degrees. Never tried this, but it's based on published activity rates for the yeast and bacteria.
Also, I've read that cold fermentation is preferred, but the refrigerator is too cold and suppresses the yeast. Again based on the published activity rates, you could try 19hours at 50 degrees. I haven't tried this, but will someday when I'm bored.