Starter bubbles, but minimal rise/white patch on top of bread?
I have been baking exclusively with sourdough for about 7 years and had great success. A few times my starter has gone through a slump (usually after some mild neglect) where even if the starter itself is bubbling well after feeding, the dough never seems to reach its full potential, and the finished loaf is more dense with a distinct white patch on top (I use 100% whole wheat flour). The bread tends to have a stronger sour, and tends to dry out faster on the shelf.
In the past this problem has been fleeting, and easily remedied with disciplined feeding and sometimes a reduction followed by an increased food ratio, then normal consistent feedings. This time around I can't shake it. It has been almost 3 months of substandard bread. I haven't started a new starter because I really would like to understand the problem since I know others who have experienced this problem.
My instinct tells me the problem is bacterial, but I wanted to see what you fine folks thought about it. Thoughts?
three months is a long time. I've done the small feed followed by a big feed too. Start a new starter anyway. If you are missing some bacterial or specific yeast colonies, you will get them back sooner starting over.
The "whiting of the loaf" might have more to do with physics. Some think it has to do with overheating the surface temperature of the crust. That can happen with the fan on, oiled surface, oven wind, concentration of heat (movement?) directly over the loaf or if a cover isn't tight, movement over the crust where heat or steam escapes the cover. Oven temperature swings. Hard to nail down. Keep track of how you cover the crust while rising and what's happening in the oven. Perhaps it might even be a cooler spot in the oven forming.
You think it might have to do with fermentation by-products on the dough surface? Alcohol perhaps? Next time lightly mist the surface with water and then before baking dab a little vodka pattern on the crust. Vodka will burn off quickly but might exacerbate the problem. It would be good to nail this phenomena down, for everyone.
Maybe you could set up a muffin pan of baby loaves and test out different techniques while your dough is being so cooperative. Cover some with coffee cups and some others with just a strip of foil exposing the ends. Dab some with milk, water, vodka, oil, butter, cover some with plastic for the rise, oiled plastic, different oils. And leave some non handled ones scattered about.
Some repeatable facts or conditions would be nice to know. Either to make them or avoid them. :)
Thanks for your suggestions Mini. I think I will try some of those next time. My baking method varies on a regular basis depending on my schedule (cold-proof in pans after shaping for a quick bake in the morning vs. standard bulk rise, shape, rise and bake), but normally this does nothing to affect the color of the loaf itself. It is only when my starter seems to have a microbial imbalance that this discoloration occurs. I have egg-washed the loaves before baking and that covers the ugliness of the white patch, but the dough is still lackluster in its performance (as you can see by the pitiful height at the end of the loaf in the photo).
The smell of my starter had been quite strong and just a teensy bit "off" if you know what I mean. Now it smells almost perfect, but with a hint of the off scent at times. Could this be a problem with the PH being off? I had read some forums on acetone starters and wonder if that could be a problem. The only thing is that none of the bakers posting about their acetone starters had posted pictures of loaves baked while their starters were in that funk. I wonder if I should get some testing strips and see what the PH is? So many intriguing possibilities!
i have learned the hard way that sour dough bread take forever to rise. I use two whole days when making mine. One to mix dough and first two risings and the second day to rise in the bread pan and bake.
could probably use a bigger yeast population in your starters. Temps are so important so keep track of them. A loaf taking two days at 65°F is very different to one rising at 72°F or 75°F.
sskinnell, 3 risings with sourdough? Sounds like two too many to me. Have you cut open the dough to observe the gas trapping while rising? What temp is the dough and room? I tend to think of sourdough rises as one long continuous rise interrupted by folding to build and maintain dough shape. Have you got some temperatures to share?
I find that when I'm not feeding my starter enough food, or fermenting a loaf too long (lopsided toward bacteria) waiting for it to rise, it starts leaning toward the paint aromas. Also a sign it needs to grow more yeast. Try a generous feeding with warm water (body temp) and several times the total starter weight in flour food. Let it rise in a warm spot above 75°F for several hours or until you start seeing about 1/3 rise and then continue the rise at lower temperatures. Let it peak for a maintenance starter reduce, keep warm and feed again. Keep the temps between 75°F and 78°F Until you are satisfied with the starter's behaviour.
Several days of feeding to peak activity (peak then level and perhaps start to deflate) with plenty of flour food to work through should help it.
There are limits to everything including cold rises. If the dough rising is extended too long it can become exhausted of food for multiplying yeast, the resulting low sugar content in the dough will slow browning. Time gives bacteria the chance to greatly outnumber the yeast for consuming fresh food. Bacteria will always outnumber the yeast and they also protect the yeast but if too concentrated they can delay the yeast response to a food supply.
These little tiny creatures do not have brains, they respond to changes happening around them. When fed, feed enough flour to change their surroundings stimulating them so they can respond, consume and reproduce. If small amounts of flour are fed (for example, less than the starter weight) and the change doesn't stimulate any yeast growth, the feeding is too small.