Nancy Silverton's sourdough starter with grapes didn't bubble
I followed Nancy Silverton's sourdough starter with grapes. It sat on the counter in my semi warm kitchen for 6 days, I stirred it once daily and kept it covered with saran wrap.
Yesterday was day 6 so I removed the grapes and added one cup each of bottled water and bread flour, stirred it in well, covered and let sit on the counter for about 8 hours. I did not see any increase in volume or bubbles after several hours or when I put it in the refrigerator after 8 hours. This morning there is a 1" layer of dark liquid on the top.
Something isn't right but I'm not sure what that is, why it happened, or how to fix it.
I've done lots of reading on the subject of sourdough starters; but I am still not clear on what to expect in the different stages.
I don't do very much bread baking but find the science behind baking bread fascinating.
Thanks!
Ginny
to hear of your starter failure.
Strictly speaking the grapes are wholly unnecessary to make the starter. All you need is the flour and the water, time and decent temperature. Simple works.
If you want to speed things through then use pineapple or orange juice in place of the water for the first 2 days. This will create an initial mix with a lower pH level from the get go and the yeast development will then occur faster.
Use rye or wholewheat flour if you can as these tend to have more wild yeasts and organisms present. Can you confirm what type of flour you were using?
I made starter using Nancy Silverton's procedure. It was indeed a long process and in the end you get a starter that is about 188% hydration rather than the 100% or less that most of us use. I find that a much easier process for making a starter is Pineapple juice solution of Debra Wink:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10856/pineapple-juice-solution-part-1
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2
Ford
Given these statements, I highly recommend the links Ford gave. That is my go to solution for making a new starter and it works every time. The actual procedure is on part 2, but if you are interested in the science then read from the beginning (or start the day 1 part of rye flour and pineapple juice and go back and read). She also goes into the stages to help you understand what should be going on.
I was hoping it wasn't a lost cause but it sounds like it is.
I'm disappointed to realize that copying an expert exactly does not guarantee success. Maybe creating starters is more difficult than I assumed. What do you suppose was the likelihood of this working - 50%? I really tried to do everything exactly as she described and as she did.
I used bread flour; per her advice.
I thought adding the grapes would make something really good. I wasn't trying to speed things up.
I will read the links provided by Ford.
I guess I will go throw out the starter.......maybe in a couple of hours in case someone says don't :)
Thanks so much for helping me out with this.
Ginny
If you got some hooch (the dark liquid), then you have active yeast that is hungry. I would say to take some of it out and feed it (do not refrigerate at this stage). Silverton works with a lot of flour and that isn't needed. I would take out 50g of your starter and feed it with 25g flour and 25g water. Give it a stir and let it sit on the counter. Check in on it every so often. If it doesn't rise, then let it sit 24 hours and repeat (discarding the extra). If you still get nothing, then try using rye for the refresh.
What you have done so far isn't a failure. To give up now would only make it a failure. Starting a sourdough culture can easily be discouraging.
By fermenting flour you're already further along than starting over. So don't through it out, It's would be silly to do so.
There are too many variable to make following a guide a guarantee.
Starting over is a step backwards. Use what you have!
Glad to hear all is not lost. I will try it with the 50-25-25 recommendations. Since there was a large amount of hooch on top, I'm doing two, one with the hooch mixed in and one with it poured off.
Ginny
Ginny, I made Nancy Silverton's starter before, my current white starter is a descendent of this starter. I really liked its flavor better than a few others I made/maintained, including Carl Griffith's starter, a 50/50 all-purpose and whole wheat starter, and a whole wheat only starter.
Be patient, it may take 6-8 more days of daily feeding, but I promise it will work.
That said Nancy's process is pretty wasteful, and the newer options (Debra Wink's pineapple solution and use of rye flour) are typically faster, more reliable and less wasteful.
I fed it late yesterday and it did double in volume and have bubbles throughout; that means it's active I gather.
"Daily feedings" means you are recommending once a day; I've read you can feed twice a day as well.
Am I correct in thinking that I can feed it with whatever amount of water and flour I want as long as it's the correct proportions?
Yes.
The proportions make a difference: more starter than food, and the starter will eat quickly and be hungry again soon. More food than starter will slow the starter, and potentially make it too sluggish. This is why most people recommend by weight: 1 part starter, 1 (or 2) parts flour, 1 (or 2) parts water. Watery starters will grow more quickly than firm/thick starters, but it's much more difficult to gauge readiness of watery starters.
When making a new starter, you're waiting for the mixture to evolve until the yeast awaken. Feeding it sets the new starter back, so it's better to feed at most once a day until the yeast awaken. Once the starter takes off, however, you can increase the frequency at which you feed the starter. A lot of people feed their 100%-hydration starter twice a day when it's being kept at room temperature.
If you follow Nancy Silverton's instructions, you'll have a 145%-hydration starter. As cranbo noted, a wetter starter tends to ferment more quickly, which might suggest why Silverton does three feedings daily instead of two.
What is the temperature of the soon-to-be starter? There is no mention of the room temperature in the whole thread.
I would say the temperature in the kitchen where I keep my starter is between 72-75 in the past few days, cooler at night.
I fed the starter this morning and it did double in size; forgot to look for bubbles.