October 9, 2014 - 10:46pm
Feeding storage starter
Hi all
A question on feeding a long term stored starter from fridge.
I keep mine at 50% hydration and left in fridge for about 2 months. Usually I feed 1:6:3 when on counter, can I just do the same feed even after such a long storage?
Thanks
Ghazi
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Think so. Try it!
Im guessing it will just take longer to activate since yeast numbers are down.
Last time I started with smaller feeds 1:2:1 then gradually went back to normal routine of big feedings, though its much more peace of mind to be able to feed it once and wait longer
I think you should do just the opposite. Give it a big feed, then when it peaks with run away yeast growth, let it fall back some and sour with bacteria (before it rises again) then follow up with a low feeding to curb the bacteria growth (there should be enough acid already to defend against invasion) and boost yeast concentration. When that low feed shows rising, back into the fridge to slow it down.
EDIT Use while active and put some into long term storage.
To put back into long term slow storage, feed for a starter high in inoculum (1:3:1 -- S:F:W) roll in flour and chill immediately. I add some flour to the jar to keep starter dry. (for high hydration starter, don't add any water) Starter should be a compact golf ball of barely moist crumbs that hangs together. Work flour into thinned starter by pinching. Lower than 50% hydration.
The process should force yeast to spore as they sense the hydration falling and acid increasing. After months (years) of storage, this starter needs to be hydrated for 24 hrs and without discarding, given very small feeds until yeast activates. Much like starting a starter only the selected bacteria has already been chosen lying dormant in the starter. Once yeast is activated, a large feed is in order.
Thanks Mini Oven, very informative. Am a bit confused with feeding after long storage, you say its better to give a big feed then curb with a smaller one when it sours enough, is this correct? I would have though to build slowly again like birthing a starter.
So if it was in the fridge say 2 weeks at 50% with a feed of 1:8:4 (S,F,W). To revive bring to room temp let activate fully and then feed say 1:4:2 would this be sufficient or is it better to start at same way it was done before going into fridge at 1:8:4?
I know im making this harder than it seems, though just want to understand the best way to approach
"birthing" a starter if I thought the yeast had retreated into spores. "Long storage" is for me well over a month or longer. 2 weeks refrigeration at 50% hydration with a large feed does not sound like it spored, it sounds like the yeast is still active, not pumping gas but active and waiting for food. If it was rising and showing activity before it went into the fridge, chances are there will not be much activity re-warming to room temp, but let it warm up and watch it. If it continues to rise, let it.
If you are not sure how to approach the starter after warming it up, feed it two different ways in two containers and see which works better for you. Give one sample a big feeding and the other one a small one. Keep notes on each one. Do let them rise to maximum peak before feeding again.
Great, just the kind of info to give me a good nights sleep.
And just about to mix up some granary bread, thanks for your thoughts Mini O always nice to hear from you:)
66% hydration rye starter after it has been in the fridge for 3 months i get it back to full strength by feeding it 3 times with progressively larger amounts of flour and water at 100% hydration for the first 2 - 4 hour feedings and then, if it doubles after the 2nd feeding in 4 hours, I feed it the 3rd time and stiffen it up . Once it rises 25% in volume, I then refrigerate it again for 3 months - baking out of it every week. IF it doesn't double after the 2nd feeding in 4 hours. i toss the 2nd feeding amount and and do it again Here's is the feeding schedule I use depending on how much starter i want to store. I had to republish this to correct the spelling and incorrect information in the first post,
Thank you for your input :)
Good advice above. The one thing I will contribute is that I like to add food for an extra generation to my starter before it goes in the refrigerator (compared to when maintained on the counter). In other words, allow for an extra doubling of the population. In your case I see a 1:6:3 ratio (starter:flour:water). Using flour as the soul limitation on yeast growth, your colony will double 2.5 times (or 2.5 new generations). Before refrigerating I would increase the ratio so that the population could double 3.5 times instead (that is 3.5 new generations). This gives you a ratio of 1:12:6 (at the very least I would make it 1:10:5 which corresponds to 3 new generations).
Forgive me if my math is off (or if I confused things further). It has been a while since I did this and my starter is not at 50%.
Next time i put my backup startres into hibernatin i will give them bigger feedngs, ensuring their longterm happiness and since i am past the birthing stage and making nice bread. no reason to not give them extra food, i usually stay below 1:10:5 or thats my limit
Does this neccesarily contributte to better tasting bread, with the bigger feedings?
Improved flavor is harder to say, but the recovery will be faster. It takes time for everything to slow down when it is put in the refrigerator. Then once it gets cold enough, the critters slow down quite a bit, but do not stop unless there is no food left. If they can finish the food on the counter in 12 hours, it is doubtful that food will last for a week or more in the refrigerator. By giving them enough food to once again double their population, it is more likely that they will not run out of food and start sleeping. That means that when you take it out everything will be ready to come back a lot faster and be ready to use sooner. Sleeping yeast take longer to wake up than if they are just really slow.
It is possible that you might notice a slight flavor difference in that the LABs also have more food to eat during the cold season of the refrigerator. When you take it out of the refrigerator, give it a stir/knead and wait for it to peak before feeding. With the extra food, you should get a decent rise once they warm up.
As a side note, often people have asked me about feeding ratios. I find the best way to think of them is in generation times. That is the time it takes the population to double. At first things go slow with the first generation being doubled (1+1=2). The next generation gets a bit faster as it needs twice as much food (2+2=4), which means that it eats the same amount as the first generation twice as fast. Subsequent generations get faster and faster at consuming these smaller amounts of food since each one is twice as large and therefore consumes twice as much food in the same amount of time that it took the first generation to double (4+4=8, 8+8=16, etc.). Hope that makes sense. It is easier to talk about in person and I don't recall writing it down before.
One thing to keep in mind when discussing your starter is to make sure people know which number in the ratio is flour. It seems a lot of people put flour at the end for some reason. You made it clear that yours was the middle number (1:6:3) when you said it was 50% hydration and not 200% hydration. Flour being the most important element it would seem logical to have it before the water (as you do in a baker's percentage), but since most people here do it the other way, I now put flour last. Just a heads up.
Edit: I just wanted to add (to the very long post... sorry), that there might be a difference in acid using the larger ratios. Hopefully for the better.
you are coming from now, the larger feeds will give me more sour bread, I mostly do 100% wholegrains and have been noticing a very strong sour after a long 24hr 65-70F ferment with as little as 4% yeast. This explains in a way how the term SD might have come from.
Makes much more sense then to give larger feeds, in other words you do not have to worry about yeasts going to sleep and makes for quicker activation and (using) for bread when at room temp. Makes perfect sense
Thank you for your long reply, its only natural:)