The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

My Starter Lost Its Spirit

antipex's picture
antipex

My Starter Lost Its Spirit

First off, hello! I've been reading all the amazing posts here for a couple of years and I've learned a lot about baking. I have more to learn...

About three years ago I made my own starter using the method from the Wild Yeast Blog, and it's been in and out of the refrigerator during that time. It has always bounced back when I pull it out and feed it for a few days, and the most recent revival about two weeks ago did great. Last weekend, however, my starter began to "slow down." At this point, it still smells sour (though not like it used to), but 12 hours after feeding it only has a handful of bubbles on top and it's not rising. I baked a loaf of bread on Saturday that was a complete failure other than a lovely sour taste.

I moved it to a new container (didn't help), and last night I fed it with 25% rye flour (so far no change, but I'm going to continue with that). I'm in Portland, Oregon, so we have excellent tap water, and although it's chlorinated I've never had a problem using it.  Until last night I've been feeding it a 1:1 ratio entirely with Bob's Red Mill unbleached white flour.

Any ideas what might be wrong here?

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

...you fed it again did you discard any?

antipex's picture
antipex

Yeah – I discard all but 75g, then add 75g flour and 75g water to feed.

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

...then before they had a chance you discarded the already diluted starter and refreshed again! Might struggle a bit more now. 

How much have you got now? 

antipex's picture
antipex

I have about 225g of starter at the moment. As I just posted below, I'm considering skipping this morning's feeding (last night's was only about 9 hours ago) since there are more bubbles starting to appear. It would be about 8 hours until I can feed it again.

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

Give it some time. Won't harm leaving it a bit longer. It's just slowed down a bit by the sound of it. Check tonight and see what's happening. If all has gone well and it's sprung back to life then next feeding stick to 100% rye (starters love rye) and boiled water that has cooled down to room temperature.

Les Nightingill's picture
Les Nightingill

I don't know what might have caused your starter's flagging spirit. I suspect the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

My suggestion would be a period of more frequent feeding (12 hours) and higher hydration ("liquid starter"). I suspect a few days of this will bring it back. You may even want to use 100% rye, too, during this revitalization period.

antipex's picture
antipex

12 hours is the schedule I've been feeding it all this time. I haven't fed it yet this morning, and it's actually starting to bubble a bit more over the past hour, so I'm thinking about leaving it be until I get home in about 8 hours. I did feed it pretty late last night (around 10pm).

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

Leave it for the time being. Should it's condition improve then carry on feeding it with some tlc. Treat it with boiled water that has cooled to room temperature even though you haven't had trouble before. 

Maverick's picture
Maverick

I am not sure about the temperature in your house, but I know the nights there can get pretty chilly. Perhaps it just wasn't warm enough to peak as per normal. Speaking of peak, I notice that you normally do a 1:1:1 ratio and feed every 12 hours. So I am wondering how your starter normally looks after 12 hours. Does it rise a lot (peak) and just start to fall? Or does it fall completely? I know this time you fed it when it wasn't ready, but I am trying to understand the nature of your starter and your maintenance in order to troubleshoot.

antipex's picture
antipex

It's been warm enough in the evening here that I have the AC on every night, so it's 72F at night and 73-75 during the day.

Usually after 12 hours it will look very bubbly and light on top, and it will have nearly doubled in size.

I just fed it about half hour ago – it was smelling quite lovely (much better than last night) and had significantly more bubbles. I think it's part way through "waking up". I fed it again with about 20% dark rye flour and the rest unbleached white – it's already starting to bubble, so I'll see how it looks in the morning.

Maverick's picture
Maverick

If you want to maximize the yeast, then you need to feed at the right time. By time I don't mean look at the clock but look at the starter. If the starter hasn't started to fall then the yeast are most likely still feeding and multiplying. So doubling is not a good indicator that it is ready to be fed. It might be the right time but more often than not it is too early. In fact, my starter will quadruple at minimum before peaking. Lately it is even more than that. If you feed too early then you dilute the yeast and will end up with less rising power over time.

Another thing that can help a sluggish starter is giving it a good stir once in a while. This gets more air to the yeast and redistributes them so they wake up more. The rye will definitely help get you going again, but try watching for that peak before feeding. If it is taking too long to peak then feed 2:1:1 until it gets faster then go back to 1:1:1. If it gets too fast then you can start doing 1:2:2 or more. If the starter has collapsed all the way then it is too fast and the yeast might start dying off or sleeping if it has been too long since the peak. Usually this won't happen for 2 or 3 hours after peak though so you have some wiggle room (flavor can be changed based on where in this interval the starter is fed).

I have to adjust my feeding based on outside temp because I don't have A/C and my insulation is much worse than yours (I show 55 as the low by you but your house is a great temperature for starters). Sometimes 1:3:3 at night and in the mornings I feed 1:4:4. It has been cooler lately so I am at 1:2:2 at night and the days fluctuate between a 1:3:3 and a 1:4:4 depending on the forecast. I moved recently so I am still trying to learn how my starter reacts to this new house.

antipex's picture
antipex

I don't think it's peaking right now – when it's done that in the past it was obvious since the rising left some starter on the sides of the container.

This morning it's smelling decently sour and risen maybe 50% (better than a few days ago), but it still doesn't seem like it's fully revived. Should I wait and feed it this afternoon/evening again?

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

How long has it been? And how much do you have now?

If I remember correctly last time you had 225g (that's an awful lot btw)

It waking up and that's a good sign. Do you think it will rise more?

antipex's picture
antipex

It's been almost 11 hours. Still the same amount – should I cut that down next time I feed it?

I'm not sure if it will rise more. There's a handful of big bubbles on top and lots of smaller ones, but it doesn't look particularly vigorous, so perhaps it's just rising slowly right now.

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

30g - 60g. Just makes it easier to give it a good feed without creating a swimming pool. I hardly discard anymore either.

I think, give it a good stir and leave it a few more hours. Waiting a little longer will not harm it.

In a few hours see if anything is happening. If there's more life to it all well and good. If not then can we try an experiment?

1. Discard some so you're left with 60g.

2. Split the 60g in half.

3. In one container feed 30g of starter with 30g of boiled tap water which has cooled down to room temperature and 30g of rye flour.

4. With the other 30g feed it 30g of pure pineapple juice plus 30g rye flour.

 

So you will have one normal starter and another with pineapple juice. Let's compare and contrast.

From now on don't keep too much at any one time. It's difficult to manage.

P.s. you can private message me might be easier.

Maverick's picture
Maverick

I would wait until you can tell it peaked before feeding. It might help to give it a stir every so often though (I often do this when I can't feed my starter right away anyway). For this next feed I would do a 2:1:1 ratio.

I usually keep about 100g or 4 oz total weight of starter on the counter (more if in the refrigerator). So if it were my starter I would be mixing 50g starter: 25g water: 25g flour (or 2 oz: 1 oz: 1 oz). Mix the starter with water first to dissolve and better distribute the starter then add the flour and give a good stir. You can use whatever amounts you like but the more you make the more you discard.

doughooker's picture
doughooker

Maybe 1/4 tsp of diastatic malt would help?

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

my stiff rye starter finally lost some of its ooommmppphhh too being neglected in the cold for so long.  I fed 15 g of it some farina and white spelt over 3 builds instead of its normal whole home milled rye.  4 hours after the first feeding - nothing, 4 hours after the 2nd feeding- nothing,  It would usually double after the 2nd feeding.  So I fed it the 3rd feeding, making 165 g total at 100% hydration, and left it on the counter for 12 hours overnight;  It rose 50% by then.  Normally I would have tossed half of this levain and fed it again but I just used it in the dough thinking the 425 g of dough flour would feed it well enough.  I have 10 g left that I will feed its normal whole rye net week at the 15 week refrigerated mark and see how it does. 

antipex's picture
antipex

Well, I've tried just about everything. Upping ratios, rye flour, raw apple cider vinegar – the starter just looks worse and worse. I'm going to start over.