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Please Help Analyze Sweet Roll Recipe

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BakerNewbie's picture
BakerNewbie

Please Help Analyze Sweet Roll Recipe

I found a recipe for rolls on the net. The measurements were in volume, so I did my best to convert into weight, then compute the baker's percentages and estimate hydration.

Based on my examination of the recipe, I think:

The goal is to create a sweet, soft, & moist roll. Is this recipe good or does it need to be adjusted? If so, what are these adjustments and why (the why is important to me as I'm trying to learn how to bake still).

Also, will this brown nicely? Should I add some baking soda to help it brown (the recipe already has buttermilk, so the baking soda should activate).

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

hydration way to low and if I include the egg still comes out to approx. 41% hydration.  Cups of flour are also small.  Even with 125g of flour per cup, I get more flour than 550g (562g.)  Sweet recipes shouldn't have 2% salt,  salt is around 1%.  Hmmm.  I would have to taste the dough after kneading.

2,5 teaspoons yeast is closer to 6g yeast. active dry  yes, it would weigh more. That works.  But with all that sugar.... yup, looking at a slow bulk rise of about 3-4 hrs.     I'd be temped to add some lemon zest, just a little bit to go with all that sugar.  Maybe a squirt of juice too.

If you look at the recipe from the old method of holding back a cup of flour for kneading, it looks a little bit more balanced, still, I would cut down the sugar by half.  Still might need a splash of milk or water though.

BakerNewbie's picture
BakerNewbie

I adjusted my spreadsheet:

  • It now assumes 562 grams for the flour
  • Salt has been dropped to ~1%

I think your hydration estimate of 41% is wrong. I estimate the egg to be 65% water. The buttermilk is estimated to be 90% water. So total hydration is almost 50%. However, I think I should be closer to 65% hydration for the soft and moist bread I am aiming for? If so, how do I get that extra hydration? More water, eggs, buttermilk?

I'm not sure what you are suggesting about the yeast. Do I have enough? Did I estimate weight incorrectly? 3-4 hour rise seems long. Shouldn't I just increase the yeast amount a bit?

What is the purpose of the lemon zest and/or juice? The recipe doesn't call for it. How would that improve things?

aroma's picture
aroma

I would reckon that one quarter teaspoon of dried yeast weighs 1 gram - so 2.25 tsp in your recipe would be about 9 grams - this is probably too much for 550g flour - I would suggest 6g would be more than adequate.  Secondly, I always use 1% salt (to flour) so 6 grams should be fine.  As for the sugar, well 100g in 550g flour is megga - the rolls will certainly be sweet!!

 

BakerNewbie's picture
BakerNewbie

I rechecked the weight estimate for 2.25 teaspoon of ADY. It's 6.38 grams according to http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/yeast_converter.html. So it's closer to what you think is adequate (6 grams for 550 grams for flour, which is ~1%). But due to the high amount of sugar, don't I need more yeast?

I've reduced the salt to 1% despite what KA says.

aroma's picture
aroma

I get 7 quarter-teaspoon measures from a 7g sachet of yeast.

Cheers

Antilope's picture
Antilope

http://www.breadworld.com/FAQ.aspx

"How much dry yeast is in 1/4 ounce envelope?
About 2 1/4 teaspoons."

0.25 oz * 28.35 (grams per oz) = 7.0875 grams per packet of dry yeast.

So there are roughly 7 grams (1/4 oz) per 2 1/4 teaspoons of dry yeast.

BakerNewbie's picture
BakerNewbie

I have updated the weight estimates per the replies.

  • The hydration is still under 50%, which seems low to me. However, with the oil (I know it doesn't count as part of the hydration), I think the dough would still end up looking/feeling like a dough that's close to 65% hydration???
  • How should I increase hydration? Do I add more water, eggs, or buttermilk?
  • Should I add baking soda to help brown the rolls?
sirrith's picture
sirrith

I would add another 2-3 eggs depending on your taste and the rest buttermilk or milk. 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

again using  4 x 125g for the flour amount or 500g  and see how the hydration changes.  Older recipes, especially those marked with variable cups (4 to 5 cups) do have some flour set aside for bench flour.  Maybe you only need 4 cups and no bench flour.  Always good to know the origin of the recipe when converting.  Cups can vary and so can flour.

Oil & fat (yolk) will not hydrate the flour & yeast but shorten the gluten for a more cake like crumb.

If I take the water 178g add 40g (for the white) add 30g for the buttermilk (round up to 60g) I get 248g (250 for practical purposes make the water 180g)  and divide by 500g flour, I get 50% hydration.  That works with AP.  Vienna dough also runs at 50%.  

I don't think you need to add any more egg.  (although you can... )  I would grab the buttermilk first unless you just drank the rest.  Water will hydrate sooner than the other ingredients.  If your AP has more protein than 11% you will need the extra moisture, just a tablespoon (15g) or two from somewhere.   Mix it up first and see if you need the extra moisture.

thymetobake.com's picture
thymetobake.com

Your rolls do seem a bit on the dry side; I am wondering if adding herbs would help to release some moisture during the baking process, and give it some additional flavor as well?  Some herbs that you may wish to add are sage, thyme, dill, and basil; garlic will kill the yeast, and form a very flat bread, so you would wish to avoid mixing this directly into the bread dough (you may add this to the top of the dough just before placing it in the oven).  Remember that dried herbs are much more potent than fresh; a tablespoon of freshly chopped herbs is as potent as a teaspoon of dried herbs (a 3:1 ratio).