The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Is soy dangerous?

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justsaying's picture
justsaying

Is soy dangerous?

I've been researching various nutrients recently and I came across this article.

I'm not entirely sure if this also applies to soy flour but I've found similar articles, some contradictory.

Does anyone know about this controversy here, I've mentioned soy flour multiple times on this forum yet no one ever mentioned it..

 

whoops's picture
whoops

I believe that much of the concern comes from the fact that much of the soy produced these days is a GMO, and also some concerns that the phytoestrogens can cause disturbances in hormones. There might be some other concerns, but those are the two biggest ones that I recall reading about. 

Some also believe that  grains/flours are dangerous (books like wheat belly, the gluten free movement, etc). Some think pork is dangerous, or meat of any type.

One should research BOTH sides of an issue and then determine what course of action is best for them. Well, at least, IMHO. :)

In case you are interested, I generally avoid soy - oils, soy sauce, four, etc.( It is in EVERYTHING- even CHOCOLATE for heaven's sake!). I occasionally indulge in some organic soy sauce, but usually use coconut aminos in its place. But again, it is all up to what you determine is right for you (and your family, if you cook for them.) I also generally try to stay clear of any GMO products- not an easy feat these days, I must admit!

 

 

 

justsaying's picture
justsaying

Oh, I thought it is well understood that gluten free movement is a bunch of fad-based ignoramuses.

whoops's picture
whoops

I thought it was well understood that there are fringes to EVERY movement, right, left, vegan, paleo, etc. A wise person does not pigeon hole another or make generalizations about group based on the actions of a few members. Otherwise, based on your comment, I would have to characterize all members of this forum as ill mannered. 

 

PetraR's picture
PetraR

You kow, if we really want to find something wrong in any food we most certainly will and than we can not eat anything anymore.

 

whoops's picture
whoops

I agree, Petra. There are arguments for and against many things. I think it is always wise to read/listen/find as much information as you can, and then take from it what works for you and yours, and not impose your beliefs on others. There are many things I personally avoid, and I have my own reasons and beliefs regarding them, however, I certainly have no issue with others eating or drinking foods that I choose not to, whether it is because of a health risk (either real or perceived) or simply because I do not care for the food or the price or whatever. 

I think MOST things food issues have some valid arguments on both sides of the aisle, and that is where personal responsibility comes in-and the need to be respectful of other's values and opinions. Some food topics these days are as heated and divisive as politics and religion!

PetraR's picture
PetraR

Yes,  I agree whoops, I see it just like you.

I decided not to eat red meat , have my reasons and people started to lecture me and belittle me.

Each to their own and to each what is good for them.

PaddyL's picture
PaddyL

It can be dangerous if you're taking a blood thinner.  I avoid it for that reason alone.  As Petra says, you can find fault in any food we eat, so just remember everything in moderation.

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

The soy article in the link is mostly in agreement with my view of soy and for those reasons, I avoid it.  As for the gluten free trend in he USA, yes it is a fad for many but for a few others it is a very real problem and for that reason I think we should be respectful in our comments about it.  Maybe conversation might ensue that would help enlighten us all.

Jeff

jeb's picture
jeb

It is amazing to me the concern people express regarding the risks (perceived though not clearly established) of GMO foods and pesticides, yet they continue to consume a product that is is a known carcinogen (which is clearly established). Alcohol is credited with being the cause of 3.5% of all cancers in the US.

http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/twelfth/profiles/alcoholicbeverageconsumption.pdf

 

Antilope's picture
Antilope

common misperception that "most of the alcohol burns off in cooking". It doesn't.

I found this interesting post on another food website. It quotes a USDA report about Nutrient Retention Factors of foods after cooking. One category is alcohol added to food and how much remains after various cooking methods. The part about alcohol retention in cooking begins on page 125, ALC BEV. Even after baking or boiling for an hour, 25% of the alcohol remains. See details below:

"Contrary to popular opinion, cooking removes only a portion of the alcohol added to a dish,
a much smaller portion than previously thought.

Perhaps most interesting, 75% of the alcohol remains after flambe-ing. A whopping thirty-five percent (35%) of alcohol remains even after a dish has been simmered 30 minutes on the stove, according to a 2003 USDA study. Alcohol remains in a dish chemically, even when its taste in undetectable – a very important consideration for someone in sobriety or for those cooking for someone in sobriety.

USDA Table of Nutrient Retention Factors, Release 6

http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=9448

http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/12354500/Data/retn/retn06.pdf

Table from USDA Showing Percent of Alcohol Retained After Cooking

Preparation Method Percent of Alcohol Retained

alcohol added to boiling liquid & removed from heat 85% retained
alcohol flamed 75% retained
no heat, stored overnight 70% retained
baked, 25 minutes, alcohol not stirred into mixture 45% retained

baked/simmered, alcohol stirred into mixture:
15 minutes 40% retained
30 minutes 35% retained
1 hour 25% retained
1.5 hours 20% retained
2 hours 10% retained
2.5 hours 5% retained

From the Journal of the American Dietetic Association, April, 2002, by Eleese Cunningham:

"The extent of loss depends on the severity of the heat application, or any other factor favoring evaporation. Cooking time had the greatest impact on alcohol retention. Flaming a dish results in much smaller losses of alcohol than cooking. Uncooked and briefly cooked dishes had the highest alcohol retention. Alcohol retention during cooking was also greatly affected by the size of the cooking vessel used. The smaller the cooking utensil the greater the amount alcohol retained. This was likely due to the smaller surface area for evaporation."

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

that if you want to make money you need to distill your mash properly above 170 F and under 190 F if you want to separate out 99.5% of the alcohol in the mash.  There is always a small amount of alcohol left but it is tiny.  Same if you bake or cook with alcohol.  Get it over 170 F and the alcohol will be the first thing evaporated .  Still, you won't get rid of all of it but even a famous soap is only 99.4% pure.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

marijuana.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

why Chinese and Japanese have such short lives and we live so much longer than they do - nearly forever - the soy is killing them.  And, since all rice is GMO too, it is amazing they live past 30 :-) 

sandydog's picture
sandydog

I can't help noticing the similarities between Soy and Bread.

Naturally brewed soy sauce - so I am led to believe - is made using only four basic ingredients: soybeans, wheat, salt and water. Careful selection is required for these simple ingredients, as they directly influence the flavor and aroma of the soy sauce.

Substitute yeast for soybeans and what have you got?  Real bread?

Is bread/this site now to be considered dangerous as well?

Happy (I hope) baking.

Brian

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

The natural yeast and LAB come right on the wheat (like a SD starter, and without the wheat... there is no naturally fermented soy sauce.

sandydog's picture
sandydog

Reference the OP, and my follow up question - You seem like a knowledgeable chap with a sense of humour.

What do you think? is soy/bread dangerous?  It is, for me, sometimes!

I burned my hands and forearms today in the bakery - I intend to eat the bread as my reward, its punishment.

Should I be scared?

Happy baking,

Brian 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I'm pretty6 sure that anything you put in your mouth and you eat it can be bad for you or someone.....sometimes very bad.  As a type 2 diabetic, bread is very bad for me personally - each slice is 1 tsp of sugar to me -  a real killer. - but for others - no. worries at all .  The reason i eat SD bread is because it has a lower GI and the sugar is put in the blood stream slower and over a longer period of time which is the only way I would be able to eat any bread, or pasta, or any high carb food at all.  Still,  I should stay as far away from bread as possible.

Others have gluten intolerance, some   are allergic to to who knows what including soy or peanuts or any food.  The greatness of  fresh veggies and fruits  can kill you if you eat them raw, like you should and they happen to be contaminates with salmonella or botulism - so the best and freshest of foods ,with no processing or genetic engineering involved,  can kill you dead faster and more often than any other food - by a wide margin.  What really can kill you food wise is the stuff that is best for you - fresh produce or improperly cooked meat.

The one thing I learned in Nam is that if you aren't going to be dead right now, there probably isn't any reason to worry about it,  But, If you are going to be real dead ,real quick, you best be paying close attention to what you are doing and who you are doing it with.

The only 3 character attributes  I know that will cause failure are fear, pride and ego.  I would rather focus on what is going to kill me and not have to worry about it or fear it than worry about the insignificant, inconsequential and ignorant.  So I make sure to wash my produce and fruits very well since i eat so much of it raw and I cook my meat till it is safe to eat.

To worry about GMO foods of any kind - rice, corn, soy  and so many others  or what foods might be bad for you because of some fad  or hyped up fear with no basis isn't worth my waste of time.  When it comes to food, I would rather concern myself with what will really kill me - pathogens and too much sugar.

As a libertarian, I could care less what other people do though.  It is a free country and if they want to not eat bread, soy, corn and rice or what ever I couldn't care less - unless they try to ban them so I can't eat them and harm me as a result.  Then we have a real problem that they won't really want either.  I like ending things on a happy note :-)

Happy Baking

 

Antilope's picture
Antilope

I sure wouldn't want to eat a piece of soy bread in a dark alley. ;-)

clazar123's picture
clazar123

I don't sweat it anymore otherwise by the time I die, I will have spent my whole life either afraid, worried, ashamed, anxious, unhappy, guilty.....etc.etc.etc. Give it up. I choose happy. Moderation, also, works well for me.

 

A famous character once said, "In this life you can be "Oh, so smart" or "Oh so happy" -I choose happy."

Edit: I believe I misquoted: "Oh so pleasant or oh so smart" . I still choose happy but I would also choose pleasant.

Floydm's picture
Floydm

No.

Next question.

Antilope's picture
Antilope

Man dared to drink quart of soy sauce almost dies from salt poisoning
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-dared-to-drink-quart-of-soy-sauce-almost-dies-from-salt-poisoning/

Of course then the question should be, "Is salt dangerous".