The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Substitute milk?

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BakerNewbie's picture
BakerNewbie

Substitute milk?

My recipe for cinnamon rolls calls for milk. I don't want to be bothered with scalding. Can I substitute milk for powdered milk? If so:

  1. What kind of powdered milk would I need? Regular? Skim? KA Baker's Special Milk Powder is not available to me.
  2. How much powdered milk and water would be the equivalent of regular milk? Would the manufacturer of the powdered milk have a formula?
  3. Since I assume one cannot scald powdered milk, will this cause problems? Or is powdered milk already scalded somehow and won't have a negative effect on gluten development?
AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11

It's already scalded through the process. Just rehydrate according to instructions.

Regular powdered milk will do. And use the same amount of hydrated powdered milk as the recipe calls for.

BakerNewbie's picture
BakerNewbie

Now that I think of it, if a recipe calls for regular milk, shouldn't I also use regular powdered milk and not try to use powdered skim milk? The fat content might play a role in the bun?

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11

But in all honesty I think you need more planning.

Driving a car not knowing where you're going will result in poor driving.

Same goes for a recipe. I think having a plan and knowing what you're doing is very important.

Before I attempt a recipe I read through it a few times and sort it out in my head before I attempt anything. Knowing why something goes into a recipe is important too.

BakerNewbie's picture
BakerNewbie

I agree with you - and that's why I've been researching and posting the forums. I'm somewhat intrigued by baking science. I was just curious about your phrasing of "regular powdered milk will do." 

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11

I'm advising as you ask. But I myself haven't studied your recipe properly so hence my "will do". I cannot give a precise answer but only guidance. One has to gather the information the best one can and formulate a plan.

Baking Science is very apt! It is a science. Some ingredients aren't even there for taste but for reaction.

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

Whole milk may be built from non-fat dry milk solids (NFDMS)  by adding butter. Butterfat is 3.6-4% of milk, by weight. So if the formula calls for 100g of whole milk, use 87g water, 8g NFDMS and 5g butter. Note the discrepancy in numbers. Butter contains about 20% water  so 5g butter is 4g butterfat and 1g water.

cheers,

gary

BakerNewbie's picture
BakerNewbie

Why bother with non-fat dry milk solids and butter? Couldn't I use regular powdered milk and not have to worry about fat? How critical is fat to a sweet bun recipe?

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

The main reason for using dry milk solids, and all I am familiar with are from skim milk, is being able to store without refrigeration. Powdered milk that contains butterfat would require refrigeration after opening, as does powdered buttermilk, for example.

I use nfdms for all my breads that use milk. If I'm not using butter otherwise, I don't add it for the milk. But, you did express concern about leaving out the butterfat portion.

cheers,

gary

PetraR's picture
PetraR

First of all, read the back of you powdered milk pack, see how many g of water you need for how many spoons full of powdered Milk and that out for your recipe.

For example, if it says on the pack that 1 spoon needs 50g of Water and your recipe calls for 200g of Water than you know that you need 4 spoons...

This is just an example.

Most important, read the pack and go from there.

BakerNewbie's picture
BakerNewbie

If a recipe calls for 200 grams for milk and the powdered milk is 4 tablespoons + 200 grams of water, the net weight of the powdered milk concoction is 200 grams + whatever the 4 tablespoons weight. Furthermore, they hydration levels will most likely get affected. Thoughts?

PetraR's picture
PetraR

200g is 200g and since you disolve the 4 spoons of powdered milk that is not affecting anything.

Do read what the pack tells you and see how much Milk you need for your recipe.

 

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

If the formula calls for 200g of whole milk, the water amounts to 176g, while milk solids and fat make  up the other 24g. If you add the DMS to 200g of water you will have a wetter dough than called for.

See my post above. Whether you add butter is another issue.

cheers,

gary

Antilope's picture
Antilope

is the amount of fat the dairy product supplies to the recipe. If whole milk were being replaced with non-fat milk, that's a difference of about 7.5 grams of fat per cup of milk used. Probably could be made up with a little more butter.

I Googled and put together this list:

Total Fat, in Grams Per Cup, for Dairy Products 

Example: Out of a 240 ml cup of undiluted evaporated milk, 19.05 grams of the total weight of the cupful come from fat.

184.12g - Butter, (stick type)
88.06g - Heavy Cream (Whipping Cream before whipping)
72g - Original Philadelphia Cream Cheese
49g - Whipped Butter
48.21g - Sour Cream
46.34g - Light Cream
31.93g - Ricotta Cheese (Whole Milk)
27.84g - Half & Half Cream
26.62g - Sweetened Condensed Milk
22g - Traditional Plain Greek Yogurt
19.05g - Evaporated Milk, undiluted
19g - Regular Eggnog
14.26g - Ice Cream 
7.93g - Whole Milk
5g - 2% Plain Greek Yogurt
4.9g - Buttermilk (2% - Reduced Fat, Cultured)
4.81g - 2% Milk
3.8g - Plain Yogurt
2.37g - 1% Milk
2.16g - Buttermilk (1% - Lowfat, Cultured)
1.4g - Dry Buttermilk (Reconstituted)
0.44g - Nonfat Milk 
0.44g - Nonfat Plain Yogurt

cerevisiae's picture
cerevisiae

To further complicate things, it is my understanding that "regular powdered milk" - by which I here mean the kind most commonly available - is skim milk, and full fat versions are hard to find. So increasing the fat content a bit with another ingredient (such as butter, suggested above) would probably help get the intended result.

lmirage's picture
lmirage

I've gone to several supermarkets, but all I could find is powdered skim milk.  But it's not a problem since my recipe always call for butter when i make enriched breads.