The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

How long to rise?

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AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11

How long to rise?

450g flour

290 mls water

6g salt

45g sourdough starter 

??

 

I ask this because many times I see mentioned that 10% starter of total flour will take around 12 hours give or take. So why does mine take less than 5hrs look ok then sink while baking. Honestly looked perfect! then flop. 

PetraR's picture
PetraR

I use about 20 % Starter of the Flour used in the recipe and I let mine Bulk ferment for up to 16 hours, the final rise only 2 - 2 1/2 hours.

What I do is to take * when I use my 133 % hydration Rye starter * 1 Tbsp of Starter and add 50g flour and 50g Water, let it sit for 12 hours and then use that fermentation to make my loaf of 500g flour, 300g Water, 2 tbsp Olive oil and 12 g Salt.

When I use my Stiff starter I use about 30 % of ALL the ingredients used for that bread I am going to make.

Never fails, get good rises, never sinks.

when you say yours takes only 5 hours , do you mean bulk fermentation or final proofing?

As I said, mine does rise ready for bake in 2 - 2 1/2 hours.

 

Do you use a Breadmaschine or do you use the Oven/ Dutch Oven, Stone.... when I used a Breadmaschine many years ago, it always collapsed.

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11

Today had to go out so my plan was this...

Last night, around 9pm, took 3g of starter and fed it 22g flour and 22mls water = near enough 10% 

Was leaving it all night so did 10% so I could catch it at the right stage come next morning. Sure enough around 12 hours later it was perfect. So around 9am formed the dough.

Mixed the starter in 290mls water, then added the 450g Emmer flour with 6g salt already mixed in. Formed the dough but had to go straight out so this was a no knead bread. Went straight into final proofing. 

Arrived home around 2.30/3pm to find it had risen perfectly and doubled with no sinking. I thought it was a bit quick but quickly started baking the bread and it sank. 

 

PetraR's picture
PetraR

If you did the final proofing without the bulk fermentation than I would say 5 hours was way to long and your dough was overproofed.

No kneading does not mean no bulk fermentation.

To me the bulk  fermatation in Sourdough Bread is what gives the bread the taste, the Gluten structure...

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11

I see. One can't just form the dough and wait the same length of time that would include bulk fermentation plus final proofing. It's either both or final proofing which, as you said, would be much quicker. Therfore it was over proofed. Beginning to make sense. Thank you.

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11

Bread machine to bake but have had good success till now. Why did my recipe take so quick? Too quick? Am I missing something. Other people use larger ratio starter but much longer proofing. How? 

 

Ford's picture
Ford

I use a starter that is 100% hydration and use about 14% starter based on total flour.  My 50% whole wheat bread takes about an hour or two for bulk fermentation followed by another 2 hours for the final rise.  It depends upon room temperature.  Always let your dough tell you when the rise is sufficient.  The time is only an approximation.  Different starters, different temperatures, and different recipes require different times!

Ford 

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11

Seems very active. I should sell it. 

Next time I need to go out I think I'll refrigerate the dough and final proof when I get back.

 

 

Ford's picture
Ford

"Next time I need to go out I think I'll refrigerate the dough and final proof when I get back."

That will work.  Just remember, the dough will be cold and it will take a while for it to get up to speed.  You can actually do your final proofing in the refrigerator.   If you refrigerate it for several days, you will find that the dough will be more acid. You probably will not notice any difference in the taste, if it refrigerated for only a day,

Ford

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11

But think I will start. Won't ever do it for more than a few hours. Have tried a few times to go out and time it so I come back when it needs to be baked but never been successful. As you say, you need to keep an eye on it and allow your starter to dictate. 

Thank you. 

cerevisiae's picture
cerevisiae

My current preferred method lately is to mix and do the bulk fermentation during the afternoon/evening, then shape and put in the fridge overnight for the final proof, and bake in the morning.

PetraR's picture
PetraR

I use bannetons for proofing my dough and everytime I do the final proof in the fridge , take it out, let it come to room temperature, my dough sticks to the banneton.

I wonder, should I take it out the banneton when it is still cold and bake from fridge cold in my Dutch Oven?

Guessing that it would not stick to the banneton if I did it that way. hmm

cerevisiae's picture
cerevisiae

When I do this, I usually don't take the dough out of the fridge until it's time to bake. I rarely have trouble with sticking. I think the bread needs a little longer to bake through, though.

Give it a try and see if doing that works for you.

PetraR's picture
PetraR

I guess that is where I gone wrong cos, if I let them come to room temperature, the flour and the dough will get soggy and than the sticking occurs.

Bread_Dog's picture
Bread_Dog

For the levain loaves I've made: I put the boules in the floured bannetons, wrap each in its own plastic shopping bag, and knot the handles.  Into the fridge they go, and in 8-14 hrs things are generally proofed and ready to bake.    I gingerly un-banneton the loaf right from the fridge (no issues with sticking), score it, and plop it in the preheated cloche to bake.  No coming up to room temp first, and so far the results have been excellent.  I'm no expert, but I think that the slower, colder proofing gives my loaves more flavor than when I proof them on the counter at room temp.  It also gives me more flexibility with when I bake, instead of having to be a slave to the Proofing Deities.

PetraR's picture
PetraR

I shall try to use them straight from the fridge next time, so , with a family of 6 I do not always have the time for long finall proofing. lol.

Kiseger's picture
Kiseger

I have been baking dough straight from the fridge, at first I got sticking dough but I've been using rice flour ever since and no more sticking.  Give the banetton a good coat of rice flour and it really works (for me)!  Rice flour absorbs more humidity and has less (no?) gluten so doesn't become pasty and mix with the dough.  Worth trying!