The Fresh Loaf

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Tartine - Rye Country Loaf with added whole wheat

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David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

Tartine - Rye Country Loaf with added whole wheat

I decided to try the rye bread from the Tartine Bread book.  This is the fourth formula I have more or less followed from the Book.  I've made the Basic Country Loaf numerous times, the Walnut Country Loaf once (my favorite bread so far), the Whole Wheat country loaf, and now the rye.

I only had 500 gram so AP flour in the house, so I made up the rest with home-milled hard red winter wheat berries. And the rye flour called for in the formula was also home milled.

For this bread, I reverted to a levain that was made 50% with AP and 50% with milled whole wheat flour.  I did this because I was advised that my 100% milled whole wheat levain looked past its peak and I figured I could slow things down a bit if I used less whole wheat flour in the Levain.  Plus, that is the formula he suggests in the book.

The dough was very sticky before the autolyse.  And, after the autolyse it was also very sticky.  I was a bit worried about this, so I wound up taking the dough out of the container and doing some slap and folds after the autolyse and then again, after the first 30 minutes.  I really did see the dough develop from doing this, and while it remained sticky, it was much less so.

I have since learned that rye flour makes a very sticky starter (reading Flour Water Salt and Yeast by Ken Forkish now), and I assume that this played a role in the sticky dough even though the Tartine formula does not call for a high percentage of rye flour. 

I believe the dough's starting temperature was 79 degrees. It moved up to 80-81 over the first 2-3 hours while it fermented in the oven with the light on. For the last hour I took it out and left it at room temperature.

The dough came out of the container okay, but it was sticky. I used a generous amount of flour on the top of the dough, flipped it, pre-shaped and let it rest, followed by the shaping.  The dough was fine for the most part, with only a little tackiness in a couple of spots.  I used extra rye flour and sifted it over the boules, together with some rice flour, scooped them up and put them in my baskets, which were generously floured with the rye flour I milled earlier in the day.

I proofed the loaves in the fridge for about 8 hours and then baked. They came out of the baskets quite easily, and I took a pastry brush to remove some of the excess flour before scoring and baking.

Two hours later, the bread was still soft and warm and oh so delicious.  The following morning, the bread was still quite moist and made delicious peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for lunch.

And, two days after baking, it made another delicious Peanutbutter sandwich.  The crumb is a perfect blend of chew and moistness.

One of the loaves bloomed a bit better than the other, but both are quite good.

There was no real sour flavor, something I attribute to skipping the overnight proofing. I skipped the overnight proofing because I was worried that the dough would overproof and become sticky whereas I could tell that the loaves would release after rising adequately over about 8 hours.

The bread also has no distinct rye flavor that I could discern.  Perhaps that was because I wound up using more whole wheat flour than rye.  Or perhaps I don't really know what rye bread is supposed to taste like. Either way, I will make this loaf again, perhaps with added rye.  I doubt I will reduce the whole wheat though.

Comments

Kiseger's picture
Kiseger

Looks most excellent to me - rye has a really subtle flavour, I find it adds some "warmth" to the overall taste (although that is a poor description, it is probably more correct to say it adds some depth??).  Rye definitely makes for stickier dough and the slap & fold helps - upping the rye means changing hydration slightly but it's a case of experimenting, I like to up the rye and then replace some of the white with spelt, it makes a good combination.   Bake on!!  

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

I will give that a try, as I have some spelt berries in the pantry that I haven't been using.

I haven't been baking with rye other than this once. When you increase the rye do you need to adjust the hydration up? Or do you adjust it down?

Kiseger's picture
Kiseger

I hate to admit that I am slightly cavalier about it, I mix and then leave it to rest for a short while and play it by feel .... I usually expect to up the hydration slightly but only very little, although it depends how much rye I've subbed.  If more than 10-15%, then definitely add water but I've never increased hydration by more than 2%.  Others, who are far more experienced will have better thoughts on this.

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

In reading through Flour, Water, Salt and Yeast, Forkish indicates that Rye absorbs less water than wheat flour. So, maybe one should increase the hydration when increasing the rye, but rather decrease the hydration?

Kiseger's picture
Kiseger

I read that note in FWSY as well and had the same thought, yet he also suggests increasing water in the "making a bread dough you can call your own" section. Some of the posts on TFL suggest increasing hydration with increased rye.  I feel an experiment is in order, might make the same dough with all parameters equal but slightly different hydration to see. Hmmm.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

nice bread David.  Hard ti go wrong with anything Tartine. Well done.  It is going to be over 110F every day this week i highs around 117 F will have to cu the levain back to 5% :-) So much for monsson!

Happy Baking

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

I can't imagine such a heatwave, nor turning the oven on when it is so hot outside!  On the plus side, you can probably bake in your attic without an oven...

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

mini oven outside and bake on the patio.  Focaccia tomorrow....

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

I just realized that I did not include the "top shot".  You can see that the loaves did not open up as nicely as the closeup would suggest!

 

golgi70's picture
golgi70

Looks and sounds delicious.  I had a similar issue when making "Rachael's Rye" some time ago for a dear friend visiting but since I incorporated only 20% and used 1/2 High Extraction Flour and 1/2 White, while the bread was delicious the Rye came through more in texture than in flavor.  I don't know if I'd say Rye is mild myself, quite the contrary, but in small doses its best match is white flour if you want it to come through.  Every time I mill Rye I'm intoxicated by the aroma of the warm flour.  Looks like your getting great use out of the mill and making some some great loaves taboot.  

Nice Baking

 

Josh

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

I do love the mill, and have been baking some delicious loaves. My wife said this last one was the best yet, but she almost always says that when the loaf is still warm and eaten with butter.

What I do know is that I don't feel like I am trading off flavor and texture for nutrition; so I am a happy miller/baker.

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Very nice looking bread, David. nice work. My wife loves warm bread too, if she can afford it ;)

Khalid

isand66's picture
isand66

Hi David, very nice looking loaves.  If you really want to taste the rye, you need to use a 100% or as close as you can get rye levain and a much higher % rye in the main dough.  I myself prefer more of a Jewish deli style rye which is something you should try if you have not as of yet.  There are many great recipes on this site for you to try.  Beer also helps bring out the flavor and sour of rye even more.  I have a few Jewish style Ryes using beer that I love.

Regards,
Ian

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

I read about easing into rye until one has their "rye teeth" in Hammelman's Bread.  I will take his advice, because my wife has repeatedly said that she hates rye bread.  Of course, the only rye she has probably eaten is the Arnold Jewish Rye, which I happen to like quite a bit.  I just didn't know if that was "rye" or caraway or whatever else is in it that she finds disagreeable.

I have no strong desire to actually make rye bread, it is more of a curiosity. Same can be said of the spelt berries I had bought.  I am just really curious and like the idea of variety. 

I love that that there are so many paths to excellent bread, although for simplicity's sake, I'd be just as happy if there were only one such path.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

JDR is the caraway seed.  I like 40% rye to 60% wheat version verses the usual 30% rye in Jewish Deli Rye.

The good thing about either, at 70% hydration,  is that if you sift out the hard bits from the grinding, you have enough to feed to the levain to enhance the flavor and the openness of the crumb.  I think if you start with 30% rye and leave out the caraway seeds your wife will think it is the best bread of all time.

Moya Gray's picture
Moya Gray

Looks wonderful - I found that so many of my Northern European customers love this version of rye. 

On the other hand, I've gotten a wonderful sour flavor from the SFBI recipe for whole grains that my customers seem to eat up! 

60% WW, 40% R, with 40% levain and a bit of instant yeast, and a flaxseed/oats soaker, 20+ hour bulk fermentation-retard (I mix about 6-8 pounds of dough in my KA for about 2 -3 minutes on first, load into a cambro and give it a few S&Fs for the next hour and then into the refrigerator).  The 20 hour retard gives it a SHOCKING sour taste in the first 24 hours - thereafter it seems to mellow if you don't freeze it.   Yesterday I ate a bit of this bread that had been frozen about 48 hours after baking - it was still very sour!