The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Crumb of sourdough bread

Janet Yang's picture
Janet Yang

Crumb of sourdough bread

I've tried three sourdough recipes that do not add use any commercial yeast, but do call for a small amount of whole wheat flour (about 11%). The crumb of the bread is different from bread I've made with instant yeast. It looks shinier and glutinous, and is tougher—almost rubbery. Is this typical of a sourdough loaf? 

mwilson's picture
mwilson

It can be. A large presence of lactic acid will impart the texture you describe, especially tough and rubbery. Shinier crumbs could simply be due to a lot of free water in the dough. I presume you're using a wet starter?

Please post your formulae and method for further scrutiny...

Janet Yang's picture
Janet Yang

Most recently, I followed the recipe for BasicCountry Bread from Tartine Bread:

water 750g
100%-hydration leaven 200g (but with more white flour than whole-wheat)
white flour 900g (Gold Medal Better for Bread)
whole wheat flour 100g
salt 20g

The dough was wetter than the pictures showed. After near four hours of bulk fermentation with a stretch-and-fold every half hour, it still wasn't stiff enough for a free-standing loaf and needed a basket for the final rise. Next time I will use King Arthur Bread Flour.

Baked in a convection oven at 450° for 20 minutes, then at 430° for another 25 minutes. The crust was tough, but the crumb had good flavor, although it had that glutinous texture.

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

I believe that the book, Tartine Bread, says to bake in a combo cooker/dutch oven for 20 minutes covered at 20 minutes uncovered.  I am not sure whether that would change the texture of the finished product, but you might want to try it that way and see what it does for you, rather than changing temperatures mid-bake.  I am also not sure whether convection baking has any impact on the texture. I know that typically you are to lower the temperature when baking with a convection oven, but you seemed to keep the initial temperature the same followed by a drop and then increase in the bake time.

Janet Yang's picture
Janet Yang

Forgot to mention that I used a cloche (instead of the dutch oven). Yes, the thermostat is supposed to be lowered when using a convection oven, but I've never needed to while the lid is on the cloche, perhaps because it keeps the circulating air off the dough.

It needed longer baking than the book indicated, but I assumed that due to the wetness of the dough.

Well, I've got another batch going, this time with KA Bread Flour, and its consistency is much better—although not exactly like the pictures in the book. There is something visually appealing about that dough.

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

The dough in the book looks like a soft pillow or giant soft marshmallow.

And when you watch his videos, and see him shaping the dough, the dough looks nothing like what I get when I try to follow the formula.

But one thing I can tell you which may get you closer to the pictures, is that when you dust with flour, you should dust with plenty of it. Just be comfortable knowing that the added flour is on the crust and not the crumb.  This will not only make the dough more like a pillow but will make it easier to handle and easier to release from the baskets.

Heck, if you use plenty of flour AND have the dough at the right time and temperature, it may actually result in that billowy dough he has so beautifully photographed.

Janet Yang's picture
Janet Yang

Are Chad Robertson's videos available online? Youtube has thousands of videos of people making his recipes, but I don't want to see them, I want to see the master at work.

fotomat1's picture
fotomat1
cranbo's picture
cranbo

One more, Chad's video for the "Tartine" book. Watch starting at 5:52 to get a feel for the texture of his bread while shaping:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5kKeKSfyOE

cranbo's picture
cranbo

In addition to flour & dough timing & temperature, don't forget the impact of the type of flour used. Yes you can follow his recipe exactly but still get a different outcome if you don't use the same flour (I believe Tartine's comes from Central Milling in Logan UT).

Different flour is going to behave and hydrate in different ways. As the primary ingredient in any bread, the type of flour should always be considered as the most important contributor of both texture and flavor. In that sense, it's the same as making wine: you're only going to coax the finest wine out of the best tasting grapes. If you have mediocre grapes, your skill might be able to make better than average wine, but it will never be great. 

Janet Yang's picture
Janet Yang

This time I used King Arthur bread flour. The dough had more body than GM Better for Bread, but it was still wetter than in the pictures. The final rise was 3 hours, and the oven was kept at 450° on the convection setting.

The finished bread tasted like sourdough and the crumb was less glutinous, but it was tough. We didn't even try to eat the crust. Too much water?

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

A final rise of 3 hours but what was the dough temperature? I believe he talks about a 3-4 hour rise at a 76-78 degree dough temperature (don't quote me there, check the book).  I just know that it is above my room temperature so if you are doing this at 70 degrees and not in a warmer environment it is going to require longer than 3 hours to proof.

Janet Yang's picture
Janet Yang

Good point—I never thought to measure the temperature of the dough. I poke the dough to see if it springs back. 

As for the ambient temperature: I left the dough at 72° for about two hours. In the meantime, I ran a load in the dishwasher (air-dry) and when it finished, I put the dough into the still-warm dishwasher for the last hour of rising.