The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Some practice loaves

Simon280586's picture

Some practice loaves

I recently baked some of the Tartine bread, in batches of two boules. First attempt, I followed the instructions pretty much to the letter. One loaf was baked straight away, the other proofed in the fridge overnight. The flavour of these was good, with a nice mild acidity. Primarily though I want to get the texture of the crust and crumb suited to my liking, and if necessary tweak the flavour later when I'm more comfortable with the process. First loaf turned out well:



Overnight loaf got a bit stuck to the banneton and ended up lopsided, as you can tell from the pattern. I think it may have been slightly underproofed.


A few days later, I made a new batch, again following the formula closely but looking to get more practice at shaping and proofing in particular. First loaf looked beautiful with a nice crust, and not a bad crumb either:

In some parts of the loaf there were some excessively large caverns in the crumb. I often get these towards the sides of my boules, not just with this particular formula, so there must be some defect in my shaping. What often happens is the middle of the loaf in relatively dense and even, while the outer edges are full of big air pockets and stretched-to-breaking-point gluten strands. I note that at no point during shaping does Chad Robertson advise to degas the dough - quite the opposite in fact.

I allowed the overnight loaf to proof at room temp for 45 min or so before retarding, due to the previous one seemingly being underproofed, but this one was perhaps worse. I think the fridge I use is just too cold for this purpose - an infrared thermometer told me the dough was about 6-7c. It looked barely different from when I put it in the night before. Also noticeable on both this and the previous overnight loaf is that the colours of the crust have a less vibrant contrast compared to the straight-baked loaves. The crumb was noticeably denser, though not terrible.

Most recently, I baked a third batch of Tartine bread. However, I decided to do a little experiment by using the slap and fold technique to develop the gluten more thoroughly before the bulk ferment. I was curious whether this would lead to a stronger gluten network better able to hold onto the cell structure of the dough for a nice open and irregular crumb. The dough was quite rough and sticky, but I worked it for maybe 7-10 minutes until the surface started to look somewhat smooth rather than a shaggy mess. I then proceeded as usual. It may have been a fluke, but I ended up with a gorgeous crumb. I think I proofed it for about 2 hours rather than 3-4 as per the formula, because the poke test resulted in indentations that bounced slowly back about halfway.

That is pretty much my ideal crumb - open and irregular but no huge caverns. Lots of small but distinct air cells in between medium-sized holes. Some parts of the bread still had some big gaps with torn gluten strands, but hopefully I can work towards eliminating these in future:

For the overnight loaf, I reduced the fridge setting so it was slightly warmer, about 9c. The loaf turned out quite well - it was better risen by morning, though the crumb was a little less open than the straight loaf. But it was still light and airy, with just the right amount of chewiness. Crust colours were better too, I think.

No big gaps, which is interesting because I shaped both loaves in the same way. Not sure what to conclude from this. It tasted good for sure.

That's all for now, though I plan to continue with these breads for a while. I wish uploading pictures was easier, doing all those one at a time is a bit of a chore. But it's nice to have some evidence of progress to look back on.


Happy baking everyone.



David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

They all look great, with the exception of the too cold fridge loaves, which look like my loaves when they don't come out right.

You say that Robertson does not say anything about degassing but while he says to be gentle with the dough, doesn't the way he recommends shaping, degas? Stretching the bottom, folding up, stretching the left side, folding across, stretching the right side and folding across...all seems to do something to minimize the size of the bubbles, though maybe not.

If you ever try autolyzing the dough either overnight or for several hours, before adding the levain,  you may find the dough easier to handle when you do those slap and folds (or may find they aren't necessary).  I don't have the experience to tell you the answer to that, but I do have the experience to tell you that the long autolyse, whether you do it in the fridge or on the counter, results in a dough that is not at all sticky or hard to handle, at least when using the basic formula. (I have problems when I use more whole wheat, and am trying to work those out.  That dough, even if autolyzed overnight, is also easy to handle at the outset, but becomes sticky by the time I get to shaping it.

Simon280586's picture

You're right, shaping will inevitably degas the dough some. I just meant there is no explicit 'patting out' of the gas, like Hamelman describes in his shaping methods. It's possible that I'm simply being too gentle with the dough.

A longer autolyse seems like an interesting experiment, I will definitely try that out soon. I wonder, that since you exclude the levain, do you find you need to extend bulk fermentation at all?

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

I am a poor baker because I don't keep great track of what I do, and how well it worked out -- but I don't see any reason why the bulk fermentation would need to be extended.

I believe the instructions call for adding the levain, water and flour all together and letting it "autolyze" for 20-30 minutes, before adding the salt, correct? If that is the case the levain is "with the dough" for the next 4 hours for bulk fermentation.

All I was suggesting was to mix the water and the flour together and let it autolyze for 2-12 hours, then add the levain and mix in the salt.  In that case, the levain is with the dough for the same 4 hour bulk fermentation.

When I have done this, I find the dough is a lot easier to handle because it feels well-developed. It is a little harder to get the levain worked into the dough, but it does mix in. I just knead/squish it through and it rises the loaf fine.


caiviocl's picture
caiviocl (not verified)

looks very delicous