June 25, 2014 - 5:50am
I am such an Idiot, why did I do that ?
Since I am feeding my Sourdough Starter with cold Water , as it is so hot I put in cold Water in my bowl when I mixed the Ingredients for my Bread!
Why did I do that?
That happened the first time when I got that flat bread that did not want to rise properly.
At that time I did not even think about it as a reason for the lack of Oven spring.
I wondered why the Texture after bulk fermentation was so different and the dough much stickier and kept on sticking in my Banneton.
And YES, I did it again yesterday.
I am sure it will result in another flat bread.
I only NOW realised what an Idiot I am. pffffft
Someone please kick my butt a few times.
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Was it out of the fridge, cold tap, or room temperature? And make sure you tell us how it came out.
I did not think water temperature would matter all that much as long as you adjusted the time. On the other hand, it does seem that those in the know suggest that the best temperatures of the dough when bulk fermenting are in the high 70s to low 80s. Still, others seem to do cold ferments without a problem.
Water came out of the tap and straight to Starter and Flour.
Bread was flat as a flunder, taste is fantastic, crumb not open but moist and not at all dense.
I am sure that the Water temp. is important though. e.g the dough temperature.
When I use warm water my bread always rose very well.
hmmm
Save yourself - and your dough. Mix another batch of dough and then mix the two together. Use warm water for the second batch of dough. When you mix them together, maybe the second batch can save the first batch from a nasty fate.
edit: another option may be to stick the cold dough into the oven and turn on the light. That will make a warmer environment to raise the dough.
I jused what I had and got what I got, a flunder of a bread lol.
Not so bad though, the taste is great and know that I know why my breads started to be flat I can change it:)
Bread is nice, crusty, not open crumb but moist and yummy.
Cold water temperature does't hurt anything. I've used ice water and cold flour, it just slows thing up.
I beg to differ AZ Chuck, I never had flat breads until I started to use cold water to mix my flour and starter with.
Dough temperature plays a big role in baking bread.
I did not even konw I was doing it, I think because I was feeding my starter with cold water to slow it down, and just used cold for the last 2 breads , which where flat.
I will bake anohter bread on Friday again with warm water for the mix of the flour and the starter.
I shall report:)
As another experimental point, I almost always use water directly from the tap (cold), and have never seen a difference in my bread besides how long it would take before the bread is ready to bake. However, this impacts the dough much less than how hot my kitchen is.
I have to look in to it.
I will bake 2 loafs on Friday, same Starter and same amount of starter, one with dough with cold water, one with warm water, both will be baked in Dutch Oven's, same temperature and baking times.
Maybe my Starter was not fed enough after I pulled him ou tof the fridge. hmmm
RO - no problem. We have made over 250 different bread recipes over the last couples years and never had problem.with flat breads - at least not due to liquid temperature . I've used a lot of cold beer for liquid and plenty of ice cold soaker water and dried fruit soaker water too - right out of the fridge. As stated above - cold anything, including flour taken out of the freezer like we do on occasion - just slows things down.
I'm guessing your flat bread problems lie elsewhere.
Thank you dabrownman.
I start wondering if I did not feed my Starter enough after I pulled him out of the fridge and prior to baking.
He was about 3 Weeks in the fridge without feeding and than only fed once prior baking.
I have also used cold water from the tap on many occasions to mix my dough as well as to feed my starter. I have had no problems with flat loaves due to this. When I get flat loaves, it's usually because I didn't develop the gluten properly, didn't give it enough time during bulk fermentation or I overproofed after final shaping. Like others have mentioned, cold ingredients only slow down the process. So bulk fermentation could take longer if you begin with cold water since your dough temp is lower to start.
Thank you for your reply.
I shall investigate.
I never ever had the flat bread before these 2 times and both times I used cold water.
But as I said to the other people that replied, it might be that my Starter was not ready after I pulled him out of the fridge.
He was in the fridge for 3 weeks without feeding and than only fed once prior to baking.
up to 8 weeks now but always do a 3 stage levain build to make sure it is in peak form to rise a loaf of bread. A one stage build that doesn't double in 4 hours or less is not ready. Once again, a weak levain will just take longer to do its thing an take much longer to ferment and proof properly - it too doesn'l make flat bread.
But we do, all the time if we watch the clock rather than the bread. A few more hours of ferment and proofing would have likely solved the flat bread problem.
I never watch the clock, I look at the Dough and usually it is all fine, only these 2 times where I used cold Water and only fed the Starter once prior to baking.
How do you do the 3 Stage build and over how many hours / days.
I would like to give it a go:)
Shows various 3 stage builds 100% hydration levain for an 80 g loaf of bread using a stiff rye starter that are various sizes deepening on what you are trying to accomplish - less time, more time, less or more sour etc,
The thing to remember is that if the levain doesn't double in volume after the 2nd feeding after 4 hours than toss the 2nd feeding amount and do it over again. I usually refrigerate the levain for 24-48 hours after it has risen 25% after the 3rd feeding to bring out more sour an just let it warm up and finish doubling on the counter before using.
Happy Baking
In the summer, I've sometimes used ice water for my doughs because my flour had gotten hot at ambient temperatures. Occasionally the flour has been as warm as 30 celsius!
Remember, water is not the only thing with a temperature in this equation. If it's hot where you are, then your flour is probably also warm, and probably your starter, if you're keeping it on the counter.
The fact that you've had flat loaves and sticky dough probably has more to do with current humidity and condition of your flour. The stickiness indicates that it may not be absorbing as much water as usual, and possibly that this batch of flour does not have quite as much protein as usual, or that there's not as much gluten development occurring. This last item would also help explain the flatness, not just the stickiness.
While it's tempting to blame the changes in your bread on the one difference you know about, it's important to remember that correlation is not the same as causation, and that while bread making can be a simple process, there's a lot of complexity behind it.
I have today baked to loafs of bread.
I used warm water as I did before I used cold water 2 times and got flat breads.
Same recipe as always and both loafs * baked in Dutch Oven * came out , risen well.
No change in Starter or Oven temperature or bulk fermentation and final proof either.
So there must be a connection with the Water temperature that resulted in the flat breads.
What do you mean by that? Obviously you had to have some change int he bulk fermentation and/or final proof, because you would need to extend the time for one or both due to the cooler dough temperature, yes?
When using colder water, the bulk fermentation time will be longer, as the culture is much less active at lower temps. So of course if you use warm water for one dough, cold water for the other, if everything is kept the same, including bulk fermentation and final proof times, the warm water dough will be more developed and airy.
There is nothing wrong with using cold water, the main thing it will effect is the timing of your production process. your bulk fermentation will need to be longer, and possibly your final proof times will need to be longer as well, perhaps by as much as double, depending on how cold the water is.
This comes down to "watch the dough, not the clock"