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Anstellgut on Ploetzblog

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Tinabean's picture
Tinabean

Anstellgut on Ploetzblog

I've recently discovered the Ploetzblog website. I've been baking with sourdough starters for awhile and have both firm and thin.  I see that many of his recipes start like this (recipes are different, this is just an example):

100 g rye flour

100 g water

15 g Anstellgut

Mix and let rest overnight.

Another recipe might call for 58 g, 58 g, and 28 g. Still another called for 35 g Anstellgut-100% hydration.

My German is good enough to read recipes fine. My question is about the Anstellgut. Any ideas about the hydration he usually means? I'm thinking unless it says, it likely means a firm starter.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

PetraR's picture
PetraR

I think most of the recipe call for a 100% hydration Starter * Anstellgut * because you create the levain with those meassures.

 

Joyofgluten's picture
Joyofgluten

You could ask Lutz himself, he'd be happy to reply.

 

hanseata's picture
hanseata

Anstellgut (ASG) = mature starter. In this case it will be 15 g of a 100% rye starter.

I'm not a fan of using professional bakers' lingo in my blog, but many German hobby bakers do.

Another arcane term that might come your way on Plötzblog: "Teigausbeute". For example: Teigausbeute 160 = a 60% hydrated dough. The 100 refers to the flour % and the 60 to the water.

Otherwise, Lutz' formulas are great, and well worth the effort of translation. And I'm happy to help out with that.

Karin

Tinabean's picture
Tinabean

Karin, yes even the pro-bakers' lingo on this site is often confusing at best. :) I just want plain explanations without all the scientific formulations.  Quite awhile back I asked what 100% hydration LOOKS like. Never got the answer, but got lots of long essays about formulas, bread math, etc. Oh well!

I did just read on Ploetzblog (under Tipps and then Sauerteig Pflegen) that Lutz takes out 10 g starter with 50 g of both flour and water.  8-12 hours later he does this again and then he takes out what he needs for his recipe from that second ripening. So, I am thinking that when his recipe might say 28g Anstellgut, 110g, 75 g. water, he means the ripened starter. He is not taking 28 g straight from the fridge. Am I correct?

I have both 100% and firm starters. If I use the firm starter, do I then need to turn a chunk of it into 100% hydration before measuring it out for the recipe?

I think there are assumptions being made about these recipes that I don't know about but everyone else seems to know i.e. 100% hydration when it doesn't say so.

Vielen Dank!

Tina

 

 

mariana's picture
mariana

Tina,

100% hydration can look like anything - thin batter like milk or medium thick batter, like flowing sour cream, or thick  dough like a ball of dough that doesn't stick to your skin.

100% hydration batter : water + RobinHood Cake and Pastry flour

 

100% hydration rye dough: keeps shape, doesn't stick to fingers, this is stone ground whole grain rye flour from GrainPro Enterprises mill, Ontario, Canada. 

Different flours absorb water differently, therefore hydration has meaning only when two bakers have the same flour to work with. So you are right when you ask bakers how it looks. Any baker should indicate the consistency of his or her 100% hydration dough : ) 

Anstellgut (ripe rye sourdough, 'full sour', starter) is usually 80% hydration (we are talking about rye flour with 70% water absorption capacity, so 80% hydration is on softer side) . However it can also have medium consistency- 70% hydration or quite soft - 100% hydration (Monheim salt sour method).

Anstellgut is never taken from the fridge. It is taken from full sour at the end of ripening stage. It is warm (25-35C), with proper acidity (TTA 10-12, pH about 3.9-4.2) and fully active, ready to be used in bread dough. 

Anstellgut translates as 'starter' and it is always taken from full sour at the end of ripening period. Full sour in German breadmaking is rye sourdough that will be added to bread dough. A small portion of it is taken from the mixer, and refreshed twice twice, to prepare a new portions of half sour and full sour for the next batch of bread dough.

You can read more about German preferments here

http://books.google.ca/books?id=SlLLsoHmedUC&pg=PA255&lpg=PA255&dq=Preferments+and+sourdoughs+for+german+breads&source=bl&ots=Z_cmLVXswK&sig=Ul-eKu80L...

Specifically word 'Anstellgut' is discussed beginning from page 267, in the section Wheat Sourdoughs. In the previous to it section about German rye sourdoughs it is already translated as 'starter'. 

I have both 100% and firm starters. If I use the firm starter, do I then need to turn a chunk of it into 100% hydration before measuring it out for the recipe?

No. You can use any starter you have and then you take it through the two step refreshment process as described by Lutz

10 g starter with 50 g of both flour and water.  8-12 hours later [half sour is ready], do this this again .8-12 hours later [full sour is ready].  Use a portion of resulting full sour where he asks for Anstellgut in his recipe. 

He is not taking 28 g straight from the fridge. Am I correct?

Corect. He takes whatever starter he has, warm or cold from the fridge, refreshes it twice as described above and THEN he takes 28g of that for his recipe. 

there are assumptions being made about these recipes that I don't know about but everyone else seems to know i.e. 100% hydration when it doesn't say so.

Not really. Rye starters are at their best when hydration is 90%, wheat starters - at 50-60% hydration. But each specific bread is different, requires certain hydration from its preferments, so there are no assumption. It is always good to have clarity about it. Since Lutz describes his starter as having 

50 g of both flour and water

we know that his starter's hydration is 100%. 

best wishes,

mariana

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Thank you, Mariana!  

Anyone working with rye can benefit from reading the link.  

I find my own rye memory needs refreshing now and again too!   :)

Tinabean's picture
Tinabean

Mariana, thanks so much for answering my questions specifically and simply! I think I can now better figure out what is being meant. 

I've been doing simpler soughdough recipes for awhile and have even come up with some of my own ideas, but I'm wanting to move on to some more interesting things and I am intrigued by many of Lutz's recipes.

Thanks for the great help!

Tina

leostrog's picture
leostrog

Here Dr '  Michael Gaenzle gives a very detailed and comprehensive answers  what is it exactly "Anstellgust"

http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/howdolacticbacteriaaffects.html

Hanzosbm's picture
Hanzosbm

It just so happens that this is my first day on the forums and I have an Anstellgut going.  The recipe I use has you use your prior Anstellgut and then retain a portion of the resulting sourdough as your next Anstellgut.  In this way, it is basically giving you the recipe, which, like the ones you mentioned, is equal parts rye flour and water.  It comes out relatively stiff, but becomes fluffy as it bubbles.  I took some pictures, but they weren't great, so here goes nothing...