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Reinhart's Multigrain Bread wet dough?

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Jane Dough's picture
Jane Dough

Reinhart's Multigrain Bread wet dough?

I am waiting on the first proof for Reinhart's Multigrain Bread.  The dough is extremely high hydration.  I'm wondering if the grain blend I used held too much moisture.  I pre cooked Great Valley Ancient Grains and used six ounces.  But in retrospect a good percentage would be water content doing  it that way.  I'm wondering if I have pushed up the moisture content to a level that is much higher than intended.  

Any thoughtts or suggestions on the use of precook end vs dry multigrain additions?  

I will bake it as is. However I will bake in a bread dome rather than free form since I think it's free form might be somewhat free flowing :(

cerevisiae's picture
cerevisiae

I don't have this particular recipe on hand, but I know that in general, it's a good idea to soak or cook grain blends before adding them to the dough. There's two reasons for this:

  1. It keeps the additional grains from absorbing moisture from the dough and throwing off its hydration - which they would do, but by an unpredictable amount
  2. It ensures that the added grains are properly hydrated and edible - depending on what you're adding, they might steal moisture from the dough and still be dry and hard enough to crack a tooth.

By cooking or soaking the grains, you make them a more neutral addition, at least in terms of hydration. If they're properly prepared, there should be no additional water (or if there seems to be some, pour or cook it off) to increase the dough's hydration, and they also should no longer be capable of stealing hydration from the dough.

Jane Dough's picture
Jane Dough

Thanks for your response.  That makes perfect sense.   What doesn't compute for me is 170 g of dry grain vs 170 g of cooked grain.  When you cook the grain you add water to the grain so that becomes part of the weight it seems to me. 

So my question then is if you were making a recipe that called for 170 g of dry or cooked grain, do you scale 170 g and cook them and use the full amount of the cooked grain in the recipe?

cerevisiae's picture
cerevisiae

If I had a recipe that called for "170 g dry or cooked grain", I'd...be really taken aback that the writer doesn't specify, or, seemingly, doesn't care. There is a huge difference in weight between dry and wet, and that difference will also vary depending on what grain(s) you're using. 

In that case, I'd look at the final weight listed and see if I could figure out the difference between the rest of the ingredients and the final dough. Omitting that kind of information seems like a serious oversight.

If even that much information wasn't included, I'd probably cook the 170 g dry into a larger mass of wet grain and then add it by eye or feel.

If I knew I needed 170 g cooked grain, I'd probably measure about 85 g dry grain and cook it. I've found the weight often doubles once the water is absorbed, but there is variation.

Jane Dough's picture
Jane Dough

I have read and re-read it.  I'm not seeing sense in it.  I think I'll hunt up some more "multigrain" recipes and see how they're handled.  In the meantime, I'll try the very basic whole-wheat with the same method and see how it works.

Thanks for your help. 

cerevisiae's picture
cerevisiae

Which book is this, by the way? I'm surprised he's not more specific.

Jane Dough's picture
Jane Dough

Whole Grain Breads.   And I'm sure it's something I'm not understanding.  But it's the Multigrain Hearth Bread. 

cerevisiae's picture
cerevisiae

It's a bit laissez faire, admittedly. I think he's trying to leave it open to interpretation, but that can be unhelpful to people encountering this sort of recipe for the first time.

I think your process should probably go something like this:

  1. Figure out what grains you're going to use; either from a selection of things you already have, or using an already made blend.
  2. If any grains will need cooking, take care of that before adding them in. There's a listing on the side of p.159 in the commentary of which grains you might add that need to be cooked. You can also look at the note on p. 102.
  3. Add 170 g of grain to your soaker.
  4. Continue with the recipe.
  5. See how it comes out.
  6. Think about if and how you might want to change this next time you make this.

I think he's trying to encourage people to just "get a feel" for doing this sort of thing, but probably could have lead them better. Adding in whole grains like this can be a very variable thing in practice, but I think giving more specific instructions, and then ideas on how to deviate, would have been better.

Jane Dough's picture
Jane Dough

That is exactly what I did.  I think the choice of grains account for my error mostly.  Also he does say add flour as needed.  I just didn't realize just how much might be needed.  A learning experience.

ghazi's picture
ghazi

I am just soaking somer grains for a multigrain Reinhart recipe. Soaking polenta 3 TBSP, buckwheat (whole) 3 TBSP and wheat bran 2 TBSP with 1/4 cup water, it drank it all up upon stirring, sitting out at room temp for tomorrows bake. This seems a good way to get the grains going instead of them taking over the dough. As with anything slow and in advance I guess its a plus

Ghazi

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

He has a discussion that should answer your question. 

Jane Dough's picture
Jane Dough

I have read and re-read. I come to the same conclusion. maybe too much rice in the mix.  

The only other thing I can think of is that I used an incorrect amount of water in the soaker by mistake.  I have no way of checking that now obviously but anything is possible. I am careful and do prepare ahead of time but who knows.  I will try again but not today.  I have some lousy toast making multigrain I can "enjoy" this week. :)

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

I forgot the original question as I was reading the thread. I meant to indicate that he spells out what he means when referring to "cooked or uncooked" grains in the commentary and in the FAQ section.

cerevisiae's picture
cerevisiae

If you think you might have used the wrong amount of water in the soaker, simply check the weight of the soaker (or dough). Any discrepancy greater than a few grams should be able to tell you if something is off; I often use this to double check myself.

Jane Dough's picture
Jane Dough

Experience is a great teacher - whether your own or someone else's.  I have to get used to thinking in those terms. The total weight is there for a reason.  

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

My problem is that I don't always remember if I hit the tare button. This shouldn't be so hard, but it is like leaving the house for vacation and wondering if you locked the back door or left the iron on.

ghazi's picture
ghazi

Just made this enriched bread and found it needed more flour when mixing to get the right consistency. The brown rice is too small amount to really be an issue. In his recipe he says to soak the grains in water overnight, which is what I did, seems to add a pop to the bread.

Sorry just realized your talking about a hearth style bread,  I guess you can relate a bit with dry soaking etc..

Its the same recipe after all, just fewer enrichments

Ghazi