The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

no knead/S+F?

christinepi's picture
christinepi

no knead/S+F?

I've had good success with breadtopia's no knead sourdough, except for "holy-ness". Still too dense. I always mix the dough at around 6pm and let it ferment up to 18 hours. I thought I'd give the s+f a few times a try after mixing the dough and before going to bed. If I understand this correctly, this would shave off some sitting time, because I'm helping the gluten formation along. I have no clue as to how much less time it would have to sit. I can tend to it again all morning, but I don't want to risk it over-proofing between my mixing the dough at 6pm and when I get up in the morning. Any suggestions? Say if I did 3 s+f's 30 minutes apart each, how would that affect the gluten formation process time wise? Hours? Minutes?

Syd's picture
Syd

I also do a few s&f's when I make the no knead loaf.  Don't worry too much about adjusting times.  The whole thing about this loaf is that it is super convenient.  Bake it when you are ready to bake.  It is a very forgiving dough.  Don't know if you saw the original video, but he actually drops the dough into the Dutch Oven.  Yes, you will be helping the gluten along by giving it a few stretch and folds, but as long as you haven't added more yeast or your room temperature isn't very hot, you should still need the amount of time for the dough to ferment properly.  

MacawGuy's picture
MacawGuy

  I made a no knead sourdoufew this past weekend, using 2oz of starter in place of the yeast, along with 12oz water and kosher salt. I also did the folds and let it rise anither hour in a brotform. Do you think your starter wasn't at its peak maybe? I had fed before earlier in the day before mixing and it was a bubbly foamy crazy mess. 

 

MacawGuy's picture
MacawGuy

no knead sourdough

Sorry didn't know how to attach a photo

MacawGuy's picture
MacawGuy

no knead sourdough

Sorry didn't know how to attach a photo

christinepi's picture
christinepi

I don't understand why I'm not getting holes. My starter seems plenty bubbly and active. While the crust is delicious, the loaf is dense, even at a 79% hydration, which is barely wrestle-able. Also tried less hydration, same unholey-ness. Frustrating!

hanseata's picture
hanseata

why you complain about unholeyness. Unless you aim for gigantic holes, the crumb seems quite airy to me.

Karin

christinepi's picture
christinepi

... I was commenting on my own loaves not pictured here and admiring macaw guy's.

hanseata's picture
hanseata

I was wondering whether you were a hyper-perfectionist :)

MacawGuy's picture
MacawGuy

I forgot to mention that I used King Arthur bread flour, which has a higher protein content compared to AP flours. Also, I baked in a dutch oven preheated to 450 for 40 minutes. It gets tons of oven spring. 

christinepi's picture
christinepi

I use Giusto's bread flour which I believe has around 12%. I use a cast iron pot, preheat it for 30 minutes... I can't imagine the 10 minutes would make a difference, would they? Anyway, I'm envious. Do you do the s+f's soon after first mixing the dough or after the bulk ferment is done, so after ca 18 hours?

MacawGuy's picture
MacawGuy

I can't see 10 minutes making a difference, and sometimes I'm in a rush and pop in the bread sooner without issue. I did the folds after the 18 hour rise. I made a trifold and the folder that onto itself before letting it rise in the brotform.  Mwoven the 18 hous was too long? How much stater did you use? I used room temp water as well, if it matters. 

christinepi's picture
christinepi

the same recipe with 14 hours, same problem. I use 66g of 100% starter (1/4 cup). Water is at room temperature... what else might it be?

MacawGuy's picture
MacawGuy

I have no idea! LOL 

My starter came from King Arthur's and I keep it and use it at 50% hydration. But should that matter, I have no idea? The other thing I was thinking about was the folding. Like I said, I only did it one time after the 18 hours, and it was a total of 3 folds. I was super careful not to crush out the bubbles when I did it- I could feel them squishing around under the dough at that point, since it was still soft. I used a lot of excess flour to keep it from sticking to my hands or the counter (I used a roul pat) and wiped it off before folding. I also lowered the loaf carefully to the dutch oven with parchment paper to avoid crushing it. 

Where is your starter from?

largeneal's picture
largeneal

Hello again!  So here's the the "recipe" I've been going with (I don't measure with a high degree of precision).  ~2.25C KA bread flour + 1C KA whole wheat flour + 1.5 C room temp. water + ~3/4 C starter (out of fridge).  Baked in pan @ 375 degrees for 33 minutes when ready.

Now, here are two variations: no knead & kneaded with stand mixer.  In both cases I gave S&Fs during fermentation (after dough volume increased by ~60-90%) FOUR times.  After this, I placed in fridge overnight in a sealed container (I don't think sealing makes a big difference in this case), and in morning gave another round of S&Fs, put back in fridge, & pulled out in early evening.  To heat up & get ready for the oven, I put dough in pan, wrapped in towel, and put on heating pad.  In ~2 hours the dough had risen & in both cases passed spring test.  Now bake...between the two loaves, the kneaded dough came out better.  It was airier and rose better.  Maybe some other factor is at play, but I'll say I'm on my 6th or 7th loaf, and the kneading process has provided consistent results.  So perhaps for the fun of it try kneading your bread (at least a little) & then proceeding with your S&Fs?  What's nice about this is a loaf that doesn't turn out only costs ~$.40-$.50 or so - a $.50 mistake is one that's much easier to live with than something requiring much more! :) (granted, my $.50 mistakes have added up over the months!!)